Yorkshire Ripper

Discussion in 'The Human Condition' started by Anonymous, Jan 20, 2002.

  1. Mouldy13

    Mouldy13 Devoted Cultist

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    Quite possibly, I realise this is off topic, but having spent some time in prison in my younger days i can confirm that fights do break out over the last bit of toast or over real or imagined slights which would be ignored outside. Prison fights are invariably horrible and contain very high levels of brutal violence. You can't have the same fight over and over again with someone you may see every day for years, so the idea is to "impress" upon them with the maximum of violence and brutality. It really ain't nice or easy.
     
  2. CarlosTheDJ

    CarlosTheDJ Justified & Ancient

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    I was in A&E at Frimley Park hospital when Sutcliffe was brought in a few years ago.

    Apparently my mate could see the pen sticking out of the guy's face on the stretcher. I'm afraid I was very, very drunk.

    We didn't know who it was at the time, obviously.
     
  3. Spookdaddy

    Spookdaddy Cuckoo

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    In Jimmy Lerner's book You Got Nothing Coming he mentions the fact that the guards in his US prison dread the days when fishsticks are served at dinnertime, (I assume fishsticks are the US equivalent of fish-fingers but may well be wrong), because they inspire a level of desire in inmates which more often than not results in violence, sometimes extreme violence. From what I can recall of the book the general attitude seems to be that if there's a full moon, or fishsticks on the menu, you need to be on your guard but if the two coincide, you really need to pull a sicky.
     
  4. escargot

    escargot Beloved of Ra

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    That sounds like an interesting book. :D

    Hey Mouldy, I appreciate your sharing your experiences there. There's nothing like getting it from the horse's mouth! Thanks very much. 8)
     
  5. Spookdaddy

    Spookdaddy Cuckoo

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    It is. Despite the occasionally grating tone (maybe a few too many appeals for sympathy) it sits head and shoulders above most other prison memoirs I've read, and is also very funny, sometimes at the same moment that it's being very disturbing.

    Actually, the appeals to sympathy aren't altogether ineffective as the process by which Lerner, a non-career criminal - a “regular” guy, ended up in prison is frightening because it’s so easy to understand, and to see ourselves in the same situation under those circumstances.

    Basically Lerner killed the man who was stalking him. What is also fascinating, and what caused Lerner most difficulties during his trial, is how (and this may be a process exclusive to male on male stalking – I don’t know enough about the subject to judge) in his case the “victim” appears to collaborate in his own victimisation - ie the processes by which he attempts to avoid conflict appear to be encouraging the stalker rather than encouraging an end to the stalking.
     
  6. PeniG

    PeniG Justified & Ancient

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    Fishsticks are miscellaneous fish bits formed into shapes longer than they are wide, breaded, frozen, and baked by the mother who bought them to feed to their kids, usually with tartar sauce, alongside other convenience foods like canned beans, packaged mac and cheese, and potato chips. The tartar sauce is necessary because they don't have that much flavor!

    I suspect their popularity in prison and other institutional settings is that it's a low-cost, low-effort meal that Mom falls back on a lot. Unlike hamburger and pizza, which are restaurant fare, or chili mac and pepper steak, which were invented for bulk eating, they evoke mother-love; unlike fried chicken, meat loaf, apple pie, enchiladas, spaghetti, or whatever your mom's specialty was, they don't suffer in comparison with her recipe because there's no recipe. The flavor and texture don't vary at all from brand to brand.

    Or maybe some people retain a taste for them into adult life. I have to put it in the category of stuff that I can't imagine how I ever liked it, along with grape soda, artificial strawberry anything, Neapolitan ice cream, etc.
     
  7. Spookdaddy

    Spookdaddy Cuckoo

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    Yup, that would be the same as a fish finger. And I have to confess that fish-finger sandwiches are a delicacy I still indulge in and as such I can concieve throwing a wobbly if the fat sweaty lag sitting next to me allows his glance to linger on my plate for longer than I feel necessary!!

    On a serious note I think it's not at all uncommon, especially for the institutionalised, for objects to be given a currency well-beyond their actual intrinsic value - if any. (Siblings do this all the time - fighting over the possession of items which no-one else could conceive had any value, practical or otherwise). Couple this with the fact that in many institutions - retirement homes, hospitals, schools - mealtimes represent an important break in the tedium of routine and restriction then in a place where said tedium is 24/7 and legally enforced I don't think its any surprise that mealtimes can be a bit fraught.
     
  8. Rrose_Selavy

    Rrose_Selavy Justified & Ancient

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    I trust you weren't a junior doctor in the dept at the time.... :shock:
     
  9. Stormkhan

    Stormkhan Justified & Ancient

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    So ... yes, they equate as fish fingers in the UK.
     
  10. CarlosTheDJ

    CarlosTheDJ Justified & Ancient

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    No we were customers don't worry.

    Vodka-snorting related injury.
     
  11. Spookdaddy

    Spookdaddy Cuckoo

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    I’m open to accusations of needless over-analysis but I wonder if the following makes sense to anyone else.

    Prisons are places of observation and although the absolute lack of privacy envisioned in Bentham’s Panopticon may not be currently the trend in prison theory there’s no doubt that the times at which an individual is not subject to observation, or at least the potential that they may be being observed, is minimal. If prisons are places of observation surely prison hospitals are doubly so - the individual is being watched because not to have them incarcerated in a place where they can be is seen as a threat to society, but also they are being watched because they are deemed to be sick and not to have them incarcerated in a place where they can be observed is seen a danger to the individual.

    In such circumstances, where the act of being alone and unobserved is so rare, maybe it’s understandable that the gaze of another can be construed as a violent or provocative act - or simply that the eyes, being the organ of sight and, by extension, oppression and incarceration, become a specific target in the event of any violent altercation.

    I’d be more convinced that the apparent targeting of Sutcliffe’s eyes had any particular significance outside this more general one and the fact that the eyes are an easy target, especially when considering weapons used inside prisons tend to be homemade or consist of what comes to hand at the time and are therefore not necessarily that effective unless used on the softer parts, if it was compared with information on other attacks inside prisons.
     
  12. escargot

    escargot Beloved of Ra

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    We're watching 'Double Time' on ITV1. It's set half in an imaginary Essex prison, where some of the action revolves around discussing important matters like portion sizes. :lol:
     
  13. rynner2

    rynner2 Great Old One

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    I've just read an American crime novel where the term 'small eyes' is applied to Paedophiles. (This was new terminology to me.)
     
  14. Ravenstone

    Ravenstone Queen Under The Mountain

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    Sorry - I just saw this

    and it freaked me out a bit! Seeing as it's actually 31.12.07 and 23:18. :shock:
     
  15. rynner2

    rynner2 Great Old One

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    The board clock is crap - doesn't know if it's coming or going.
     
  16. Spookdaddy

    Spookdaddy Cuckoo

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    I've heard the term 'short eyes' used in that context before.
     
  17. DoctorCrippen

    DoctorCrippen Junior Acolyte

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    Going back to the recent attack on sutcliffe...

    ..i suppose anyone who kills/blinds him will become famous for 10 minutes. Its sad that some people think like that, but the most notorious are always some kind of trophy. Last I heard he was eating himself to death anyway.

    I remember from a documentary that one attack at the time was done by a diffferent man and they btried to blend two different photo fits, anyone remember this?
     
  18. OneWingedBird

    OneWingedBird Beloved of Ra

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    I wonder if this can come off without the same sort of shit that surrounded Hindley and Brady, i.e. politicians sticking their noses into sentencing:

    http://www.yorkshireeveningpost.co.uk/n ... 4990294.jp
     
  19. escargot

    escargot Beloved of Ra

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    In a word, nope. Not a chance. :lol:
     
  20. myf13

    myf13 Devoted Cultist

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    Broadmoor isn't a prison, it's a hospital and is part of the NHS. Yes, it's high security, and has big walls and fences and gates and other stuff, and looks like a prison if you happen to see the outside of the place, but it is most certainly a hospital.

    Sorry, just wanted to clear that up.
     
  21. escargot

    escargot Beloved of Ra

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    Yup, the question is whether he should be put back into the prison system and thus 'released' only from Broadmoor, but of course the way the Scum sees it, any form of 'release' means ALLOWING THIS MONSTER TO WALK THE STREETS, FREE TO KILL AGAIN!
     
  22. myf13

    myf13 Devoted Cultist

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    Rather than being shunted back in to the prison system, he could remain within the NHS but move to a medium secure unit or something. The various options would all count as "release from Broadmoor", but most aren't nearly as likely to stir up the seething masses as the vague hint of a suggestion of turning such a person out onto the streets to live out his days in amongst common, decent, hard-working people who pay their taxes blah blah blah - insert the usual tabloid press rants here.

    The way such things are often reported in the press really does wind me up sometimes.
     
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  23. OneWingedBird

    OneWingedBird Beloved of Ra

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    The 30 year tariff he was given at his trial runs out in 2011... he is eligable for parole after that, though that's not to say that he will necessarily get it...
     
  24. Yithian

    Yithian Incredulous Staff Member

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    I've just watched this (far too close to bedtime):



    I was a toddler at the time and have never given the case much attention. I was obviously aware of Sutcliffe's prison career and the existence of the Wearside Jack hoaxer, but that is about it.

    I found this documentary informative, depressing and rather chilling.
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2017
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  25. GerdaWordyer

    GerdaWordyer Abominable Snowman

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    What he deserves isn't legal in any country. That's too bad.
     
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  26. escargot

    escargot Beloved of Ra

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    It probably is legal somewhere, though a society which would allow the level of barbarity which I'm guessing you're thinking of wouldn't inflict it on a man to punish him for crimes against mere women.
     
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  27. PeteS

    PeteS Ephemeral Spectre

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    Resurrecting what's been said before years ago this thread but this brings back many memories. Before he was identified I used to drive past the house where he lived virtually every day. During the time of the lengthy investigation many roadblocks were set up around the city every night and no matter which route you took drivers were stopped and interrogated. It happened to me and probably thousands of people many times.The cost of this part of the Police work alone must have been enormous. Really bad time for the community.
     
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  28. Coastaljames

    Coastaljames Justified & Ancient

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    Punishing barbarity with barbarity would be a rather odd way to signal disapproval at barbarity.


    Is it right or is it wrong?
     

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