Time Or Dimensional Slips

Discussion in 'General Forteana' started by Anonymous, Feb 25, 2004.

  1. EnolaGaia

    EnolaGaia I knew the job was dangerous when I took it ... Staff Member

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    Thanks for the confirmation. I know nothing about the place, but the bit about the semantic shift from one type of bolt to the other made me curious enough to do some online rummaging ...
     
  2. JamesWhitehead

    JamesWhitehead Piffle Prospector

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  3. INT21

    INT21 Justified & Ancient

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  4. CuriousIdent

    CuriousIdent Not yet SO old Great Old One

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    Ha. :) Not quite. Although we don't know what Roy DID look like back in the 60s.

    I guess what we're trying to gauge is the distances between buildings in relation to Roy's alleged timeslip experience.

    If (yes, I know) what Roy recounted to Tom Slemen is to be taken as gospel we would need to consider the following:

    • Roy's experience happened when he exited the Cavern Club on that 1960s night. That will have been exiting the Club via its original entrance on Mathew Street. But that original entrance, and the current entrance, are not in the same place. As is noted above there is a some kind of marked doorway which stands as a heritage marker for the original entrance.
    • Roy stumbled out into Mathew Street, and recalls seeing the usual familiar warehouses replaced with a modern shopping center - which upon returning to Liverpool in the relatively recent past he identified as Cavern Walks. We would need to consider if having stumbled from the original Cavern Club entrance how far the entrance to Cavern Walks is in terms of proximity. Would his seeing it at stumbling distance be plausible?
    • He recalls seeing a girl with a lip piercing and tribal tattoo approach him from a boutique called 'Glass Onion'. The only business we have any clear record of on Mathew Street which had that name was a Pub named 'The Glass Onion' (Now named "O Brien's") from the early 2000s. How close is that building to the original Cavern Club entrance? Was it within staggering distance?
    • Or is there any other shop on Mathew Street which has gone by the name 'Glass Onion' during some point in the past 50 years?
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2018
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  5. henry

    henry still speeding

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    if he was off his face his perception of distance and time taken would have been skew anyway, how useful is data on the above ?

    i would be interested to see if there is any correlation between the various reported events in the liverpool cluster once mapped out ... gauge true proximity
     
  6. Dotty

    Dotty Junior Acolyte

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    Curious indent I am now on a mission, as soon as the weather becomes more clement, I shall dust off our merseytravel passes and get the first off peak miseryrail service to Moorfields station. 20 Mathew Street ... here I come. I’ll report back.
     
  7. CuriousIdent

    CuriousIdent Not yet SO old Great Old One

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    Well, yes. He fully admitted to being under the influence of something - a tablet which had been given to him by one of the friends he was with. He was told it was a Purple Heart. He suspected otherwise.

    But I'm not so much concerned about *his* interpretation of distance. I'm more interested in how likely it would be for any person today (or at least in the past 10 years) who was standing outside the original Cavern Club entrance to see Cavern Walks. Maybe also to see the sign for The Glass Onion (now O Brien's). Because regardless of how he may have perceived things around him, if it were largely implausible in reality (i.e. really far apart and would have required significant wandering or meandering to have seen these things) it becomes a lot less likely. :)

    We don't know how long Roy's experience lasted, either. He did tell Tom Slemen that he had collapsed against the warehouse buildings on Mathew Street (which surrounded the Cavern Club in the 60s) and was taken to hospital from there:

    "Roy found himself slumped against a warehouse wall on a bleak rain-slicked Mathew Street back in 1965, surrounded by a lot of people, all looking down at him. He passed out and woke up in the Royal Hospital, Pembroke Place, where he was kept under observation for a while".

    I would speculate (based upon that) that he probably didn't actually move very far in terms of distance before that happened.

    It's also not entirely clear as to whether Roy considered this a timeslip case at the time, or simply the effects of a good/bad trip (depending on your interpretation):

    "Roy confided in his brother and his closest friend about the tattooed blonde and the arcade which looked like something out of a Dr Who episode. "It must have been the purple heart," was his brother's explanation."

    I mean, let's be fair... You take a recreational drug and then *this* happens. You think it's daytime. You see a pretty girl come to help you and impossibly futuristic architecture. Sounds like a pretty wonderful hallucination, no? If taken as gospel that's probably all that Roy assumed it ever was.

    Imagine the mindsmack you got 40+ years later walking down Mathew Street for the first time in decades and finding that the building you thought that you had hallucinated back in the 60s actually exists! :)

    A story almost too good to be true, admittedly. But that's why we want to know how plausible any of this could be in the present.



    Absolutely.

    I'm not talking about the points forming some kind of ancient sign or symbol, or anything. But it would be interesting to see if there was any kind of natural pattern visible between them.



    Thanks, Dotty. No rush. But if you do get a chance please do let us know what you find. :)
     
  8. henry

    henry still speeding

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    google streetview ?
     
  9. CuriousIdent

    CuriousIdent Not yet SO old Great Old One

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    Streetview can be brilliant. But not always.

    The original Cavern Club entrance is visible here:

    https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.4...4!1sT1dP3uN0tL5YnzQQLw9XjQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

    Whereas the modern day entrance is further up the road, here:

    https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.4...4!1sRl6VhJ73eP22fILe1vpWww!2e0!7i13312!8i6656


    Both images though are over 3 and a half years old. And on a street like this, businesses can change hands fast.

    Some other views around it are timestamped as 2017. And this is the only real downside of Streetview. You can use it to get a gist of an area, but in terms of what you're actually seeing sometimes you get a bit of a frankenstein interpretation of a road combining images which are years apart from each other. They may appear to be one smooth route as you 'walk' it but what you're seeing isn't always that clear.

    So, if the opportunity arises, it's great to be able to have somebody view the street in person, today.
     
  10. Simon

    Simon Devoted Cultist

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    I'd like to refer you all to my post #63 on page 3 of this thread.
    I'll let you know if I bump into Roy coming the other way!
     
  11. CuriousIdent

    CuriousIdent Not yet SO old Great Old One

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    Ha! :) Yeah. Liverpool in the 60s would be a damned good place to visit.
     
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  12. dream_decoder

    dream_decoder Fresh Blood

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    This is really mundane but it left me scratching my head:
    On my drive home I pass through three roundabouts before I get to the motorway.
    A couple of weeks ago I was approaching the third roundabout when my car wing mirrors automatically turned in.
    The switch isn't something I could hit by accident; and after I'd passed through the third roundabout I re-opened them.
    About 20 seconds later I found myself at the third roundabout again, it was a real case of deja vu, and as I drove across it the mirrors turned in once more - it made the hairs stand up on the back of my neck.
    The mirrors could be an electrical glitch or interference but I genuinely experienced the same roundabout twice, the mind is a strange thing!
     
  13. GNC

    GNC King-Sized Canary

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    Sounds like a glitch, unless you're driving Herbie (!). Let us know if it happens again, maybe on a different stretch of road - if so, it's definitely a glitch. Unless driving over a bump set them off? British roads aren't in a great state these days.
     
  14. humanoidlord

    humanoidlord ce3 researcher

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    was reading the recent posts and it reminded of an dream that i once had, where i was walking on an dirt shortcut, near my town (wich is very small) when i stumble upon an gigantic futuristic city with miles high buildings!
     
  15. INT21

    INT21 Justified & Ancient

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    Hmm.

    Today I had a disagreement with my wife.

    I went to butter a slice of toast and found the butter tub almost empty.

    'Wife', said I, 'where has all the butter gone. I only opened that tub last night'

    'No you didn't, you opened it last week' said she.

    But I am clear in my mind that it was last night; maybe the night before. No further back.

    I can without this kind of thing happening.

    INT21
     
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  16. blessmycottonsocks

    blessmycottonsocks Justified & Ancient

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    As I've been working in Reading for a few months, I sometimes browse the libraries for tales of local Forteana and other interesting historical stuff. Reading does seem to have quite an abundance of ghostly residents - notably around the abbey ruins and the Thames side path down through Caversham.
    One account though, despite the scanty details, struck me more as having a vibe closer to that of time slips, like some of those reported in Liverpool.
    In South Reading in quite an affluent middle-class area, lies Berkeley Avenue. Late night pedestrians have reported seeing a large, older-style car (would love it to be a Rolls Royce Phantom) driving down the avenue, with no lights on and no appreciable engine noise. The car, however, appears well illuminated, so that its bright blue colour could easily be seen, as could the driver, described as an attractive red-haired woman. After a few seconds, the car abruptly disappears. These details suggested to me that the witnesses were describing a car apparently observed in day-time conditions (well-lit but no headlights on) but at night.
    Apart from what I read in the book, a couple of accounts on the Internet (Haunted Berkshire) give no further details than those I've posted above.
    Would seeing something that appears to have the characteristics of existing at a different time to the present seem to be indicative of a time slip?
    I may stroll down there this lunchtime and would love to glimpse an old-fashioned car although in broad daylight, appearing to be in murky midnight conditions.
     
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2018
  17. CuriousIdent

    CuriousIdent Not yet SO old Great Old One

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    Plausibly.

    Am I reading this correctly: So the car has been seen at night, but it appears as if it would if observed in daylight? Brightly as reflected by sun?

    We have talked before about the plausibility of ghosts (and road ghosts in particular) possibly being a timeslip experience. I personally believe that at least some cases of people encountering ghosts could plausibly be.

    The common ground which I believe the two share is in repetition of actions or gestures - like a moment in the past replaying in the present. A lot of ghost stories from multiple witnesses do mention specific repetition of actions or gestures. When you take away the embellishment, the campfire reading and the emotional response you can find details which are mentioned by multiple people.

    For example, the A15 road ghost in Lincolnshire (which we've discussed on the Ghosts forum - sometimes melodramatically referred to as 'The Ruskington Horror') has been witnessed in and around a specific road junction by multiple people over decades. It was briefly mentioned by a caller on a This Morning phone-in back in the late 90s, which then resulted in a dozen or so other people calling in with similar stories.

    The common link between the majority of accounts seems to be that a figure steps out into the road and raises one of its hands as the driver approaches it. A detail repeated in enough accounts that I personally believe there might be at least something in it.

    I've often wondered if it's plausible that as so many have seen this figure step out and enact that same gesture that rather than seeing some kind of entity who likes to do something over, and over again, that they actually could be seeing a specific event repeated. That each time this 'ghost' is encountered it's some kind of echo of something that happened centuries ago, being replayed because of circumstances unknown. Whether or not that is a true 'time slip' I don't know. But then again we don't actually know what time slips (if they are real) truly are. Or what causes them.

    Roads do seem to be a relatively common element of both Ghost and Time Slip stories. If this car you're talking about has been seen multiple times, if it has a set route on specific road, I'd not call it implausible to be as a result of a timeslip. You never know.
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2018
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  18. blessmycottonsocks

    blessmycottonsocks Justified & Ancient

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    "So the car has been seen at night, but it appears as if it would if observed in daylight? Brightly as reflected by sun?"

    That's my interpretation of the sighting.
    I've just re-read one of the accounts on altreading.com which describes a "ghostly blue" colour to the car, but which was driving without its lights on. Seeing a car driving at night with no lights is curious in itself. But seeing it strangely illuminated to the degree that the driver's features could be described, is downright freaky.
    Of course it could all be BS and I have no idea why a timeslip would manifest itself in this manner, but it did make me think of a daytime sighting somehow seen at night.
     
  19. CuriousIdent

    CuriousIdent Not yet SO old Great Old One

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    Well, no. But to the same degree why would *any* timeslip manifest itself? :) If they are for real we definitely don't know what causes them.

    "Ghostly Blue" is another fantastic example of embellishment of course. It directs towards the assumption that what is being seen is unquestionably a ghost. Whereas there could be many explanations as to what might have cause the luminescence or lighting state applied to the vehicle in that moment.
     
  20. blessmycottonsocks

    blessmycottonsocks Justified & Ancient

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    Agreed, which is why I tried to avoid any embellishments like "ghostly" in my initial post.
    If I can find any further details of the sightings I will post them here.
     
  21. CuriousIdent

    CuriousIdent Not yet SO old Great Old One

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    Understood. And I hope you didn't think I was suggesting embellishment on your part. Certainly not my intention. :)

    If you find anything more out blessmycottonsocks, please to let us know.
     
  22. gellatly68

    gellatly68 Deity upon a velocipede

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    There are two other road ghost stories attached to Reading.
    The first is located on The Warren, in Caversham, where the sound of a horse galloping madly by has been heard by numerous witnesses. Legend says it is the ghost of a Cavalier riding the road from during the Siege of Reading (which started 325 years ago today, appropriately enough).
    The second, far more dubious (but still fun), story concerns the main Woodcote Road once it gets toward Gallowstree Common, and a stretch called The Thirteen Bends Of Death. As you might gather from the name, there have been innumerable accidents on this bit of road, and local legend says that tje apparition of a girl (or sometimes, girls), dressed in Victorian clothing, presages an accident - basically, if you spot it, you're going to crash!
     
  23. Carl Grove

    Carl Grove Abominable Snowman

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    Sounds like a time slip to me -- reminds me of the Sandra Hardwick case at Rougham, took place in late evening, but the house seemed to be brightly illuminated as though in broad daylight.
     
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  24. Schrodinger's Zebra

    Schrodinger's Zebra Endearingly bedraggled in the wind

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    Very enjoyable thread, I love this sort of stuff. I'm always hoping to experience another slip but for now I have to be content with reading everyone else's.
     
  25. blessmycottonsocks

    blessmycottonsocks Justified & Ancient

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    Found this on YouTube. Supposedly footage of the Rougham "mirage":

     
  26. CuriousIdent

    CuriousIdent Not yet SO old Great Old One

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  27. blessmycottonsocks

    blessmycottonsocks Justified & Ancient

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    Absolutely - the dog seemed convinced!
     
  28. Carl Grove

    Carl Grove Abominable Snowman

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    Afraid it is a fake, a few pointers being (1) that if you were filming your dog walking along, and there was a strange noise and it froze, you would tend to overshoot it, not to instantly stop. (2) the house (which doesn't look anything like any of the houses seen there) is superimposed over an empty field in a very unconvincing way. (3) A total absence of relevant details about the girl allegedly filming, or her own testimony, which I think you would expect to hear if it was genuine.
     
  29. CuriousIdent

    CuriousIdent Not yet SO old Great Old One

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    I think this was filmed as a joke, Carl. At least one would assume so. :)

    Although, we actually haven't discussed The Rougham House all that much on this thread. It was Red Brick, wasn't it? I want to say Georgian?

    If I recall rightly we were looking at a property which has appeared in more than one location within the area, but mostly on one road. Set back from a boundary wall closer to the road itself?

    And if I recall rightly the earliest mention of it was the mid 1800s?
     
  30. Carl Grove

    Carl Grove Abominable Snowman

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    It probably seemed amusing to the people who did it, I suppose! But one would have hoped for something a little more convincing, given all the special effects available these days.

    Phil Sage told me about it after hearing of it from others (he doesn't have a computer himself), and asked me to check it out. I reported back to him that it was a fake. Given the putative scenario, of a lady innocently walking her dog, had it been genuine I have no doubt that Phil would have had some info about her identity, as he has so many contacts in the Rougham community.

    There are three separate houses that have been seen at Rougham: a Georgian style building seen by Wynne and Allington at Bradfield St George, a Georgian house seen on the West side of Kingshall Street, and a country house seen on the East side. The Bradfield house was set within walled and wooded grounds. The country house was the first one on the record, from the 1860s. (I reproduced the James Cobbold article describing this and his own sighting in my report.)
     
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