The Mysterious Case of Elisa Lam

Discussion in 'Fortean News Stories' started by ramonmercado, Feb 22, 2013.

  1. Swifty

    Swifty The Great Glass Elevator

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    Quoting my own previous post here but I've always thought it a weird coincidence that at the same time Elisa Lam was at The Hotel Cecil, there was an outbreak of TB in skidrow near to the hotel amongst the homeless .. the name of the vacinatation that could have been used in this instance? .. Lam Elisa .. did Elisa Lam book into the hotel with the receptionist recording her name as Lam, Elisa I wonder ? ..

    Text copied from the link below ..

    "In a first clinical evaluation the LAM assay has proven to have a high sensitivity and specificity in 231 patients with suspected pulmonary tuberculosis (TB) and 103 healthy volunteers were screened with standard TB tests and with the new LAM-ELISA. Of 132 patients with confirmed pulmonary mycobacterial disease (positive sputum culture), 106 were positive using the LAM-ELISA (sensitivity 80.3%). In comparison, the sensitivity of acid-fast bacilli (AFB) sputum microscopy was 62.1% (82 of 132 confirmed cases)." ...

     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2017
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  2. CuriousIdent

    CuriousIdent Not yet SO old Great Old One

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    The world is full of strange coincidences... :)
     
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  3. Swifty

    Swifty The Great Glass Elevator

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    Very true, conspiracy theorists could have a field day with this particular Elisa Lam/Lam Elisa localised coincidence though, surely anyone has to admit .. *puts on tin foil hat* ... drum roll .. 'they in black project power' were conducting unofficial experiments on the homeless, deliberately infecting them with TB to test the effectiveness of Lam Elisa ... enter Elisa Lamb onto the stage. Was her name just a weird coincidence ?, were some of the people being infected staying at the notorious slum The Hotel Cecil and has anyone looked into that ? .. was anyone involved in the deliberate infections connected to the hotel and did they wrongly panic or was Elisa Lam aware of all of this before she booked in and involved in some kind of investigation ? .... *takes tinfoil hat off*.
     
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  4. Min Bannister

    Min Bannister Justified & Ancient

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    It is not a medication or a vaccination but simply a lab test. I am not sure why shadowy governmental figures would be interested in testing its effectiveness in this way?
     
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  5. Swifty

    Swifty The Great Glass Elevator

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    For the same reason a shadowy government tested the effectiveness of LSD on US soldiers as well as British Marines in 1964 ? .. tin foil hat wearers could do worse than looking into the history of the development of the Lam Elisa lab test and also into the background, social life and academic studies of Elisa Lam.

     
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  6. Min Bannister

    Min Bannister Justified & Ancient

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    I don't understand. A lab test is what happens when your doctor or nurse takes some blood or wee from you and sends it off and then tells you the results some time later. It isn't even slightly the same as giving soldiers LSD.
     
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  7. Swifty

    Swifty The Great Glass Elevator

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    And the lab test called Lam Elisa isn't even slightly the same as the name Elisa Lam ?. (I know what a lab test is) .. and governments have unofficially conducted tests on unwitting subjects, please don't ask me to provide evidence, please look it up for yourself.
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2017
  8. henry

    henry still speeding

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    eg. a press pack with release, photos and contact points
     
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  9. Min Bannister

    Min Bannister Justified & Ancient

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    It is, however your initial understanding was that it was a medication then a vaccine. With my non-tinfoil hat on and my knowledge of the horrible experiments performed on soldiers, black people etc I could see the "use" in testing these out on homeless people. But a lab test can be trialled far, far more easily by simply going to the freezer and defrosting a few existing samples and testing those. Or if for some reason you don't have any, organising to get some samples from people with TB. Sure you have a few ethics hoops to jump through, forms to fill out etc but it is still much simpler than covert homeless infection and murder.:embryo:
     
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  10. PeteS

    PeteS Ephemeral Spectre

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    You can't help but come to the conclusion that the police investigation was merely incompetent. But that's on the basis of the reported information and not based on what the Police actually did do or know. It's clear from other cases that the Police hold back information in the hope it will aid future solving of the case, but this strikes me as a very strange situation all round with virtually no explanation of what actually happened. Surely fingerprints of the access doors would have revealed whether the girl made her way to the roof or not?
     
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  11. Swifty

    Swifty The Great Glass Elevator

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    OK, I incorrectly labelled Lam Elisa as a medication instead of a lab process but .... even though it's a lab process, surely that doesn't require Lam Elisa to be completely ignored/over looked .. it's a hell of a coincidence if that's all it is.

    I fully admit that my theory is pretty far out there but so far it's a pretty far out case .. no leads, no clues, no useful evidence so far .. that's the only reason I'm thinking outside the box so to speak on this. All leads and clues should be investigated, no matter how odd sounding.
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2017
  12. Min Bannister

    Min Bannister Justified & Ancient

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    Fair enough, I just didn't want you barking up the wrong tree!
     
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  13. Swifty

    Swifty The Great Glass Elevator

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    I'm barking up a more accurate tree thanks to you .. I'll solve this case goddammit !! ;)
     
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  14. EnolaGaia

    EnolaGaia I knew the job was dangerous when I took it ...

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    IMHO this TB-test-conspiracy-whatever spin on the case is idiotic ...

    ELISA is an acronym for 'enzyme-linked immunosorbent assay'. The label, if not the acronym, dates back to parallel research efforts defining and promoting this approach to clinical biochemical testing in 1971 - twenty years before the late Ms. Lam was born.

    http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/...ionid=712B528808AD089D10A4C0CEC99C96CD.f02t02

    http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/001927917190454X?via=ihub

    ELISA is therefore a broad term encompassing a set of bio-assay techniques, and it's not peculiar to any disease or group of diseases.

    LAM is an acronym for lipoarabinommanan - a lipid strongly correlated with the TB bacterium.

    LAM-ELISA is simply the ELISA procedure testing for LAM.

    Even if there's any significance to this lexical coincidence, I'd claim it needs to be approached from the opposite direction - i.e., starting with the woman rather than the test. The young woman known as Elisa Lam was born to a family of Chinese immigrants and given the Cantonese name 'Ho-Yi Lam'. It's never been clear to me whether 'Elisa' was her legal / official name of record (in Canada).

    For all I know, 'Elisa' was a legally-recognized self-attributed name / nickname chosen as a pun on the clinical test.

    On the other hand ... Given her well-documented fragile mental state, it wouldn't surprise me if a strong emotional reaction upon discovering the parallel use of the term 'LAM-ELISA' contributed to the (near-?) psychotic break I still suspect to be the explanation for her odd behaviors and ultimate death.
     
  15. CuriousIdent

    CuriousIdent Not yet SO old Great Old One

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    Exactly.

    Kinda similar to how the roof was searched by police, but not the area of it where the tanks were (a detail only heard of after the body was discovered). And it is unclear as to whether that search involved the sniffer dogs, or whether that was different search.

    That, to me, does not sound like a very sound and well-executed investigation.

    If you genuinely believe that you are looking at a homicide case, and you believe that it may have happened on site, you lock that site down and leave no stone un-turned.

    The fact that it wasn't until weeks later, with a decomposing body tainting the water supply, that Lam's body was discovered? Is messed up. I personally find myself believing that the police moved to write this case off as mental health misadventure more to cover an incompetently executed investigation than to get to the bottom of what actually happened.

    Because by the point the body was found to many opportunities had been missed to get to the actual truth of the matter cleanly.

    This does not feel right as misadventure of any kind, to me. There are too many questions unanswered to leap to that conclusion.
     
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  16. ramonmercado

    ramonmercado CyberPunk

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    More PROOF that YOU are one of THEM!
     
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  17. Swifty

    Swifty The Great Glass Elevator

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    If you are proffering prior qualifications on TB testing, well spotted. If you've just spent an hour or so doing a bit of research online then classifying a conspiracy approach as 'idiotic'? that's posturing and arrogant IMHO .. although I have learned new avenues to look at so thanks for that anyway.
     
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  18. EnolaGaia

    EnolaGaia I knew the job was dangerous when I took it ...

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    For the record ...

    I was familiar with the ELISA protocol (by that name ... ) for at least 2 decades, and I was aware of the LAM-ELISA label for the TB-specific application of this protocol for at least 5 years, before Ms. Lam's death.

    In case I wasn't sufficiently clear ... My point was that generating a new conspiracy angle based on nothing more substantive than terminological similarity is nothing short of idiotic.

    And yes - I damned well meant idiotic.
     
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  19. Swifty

    Swifty The Great Glass Elevator

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    You're sexy when you're angry ..

    Describing somebody as unaware or uneducated on your field of expertise would be acceptable, even polite .. labelling anyone who's exploring a coincidence between terminology: procedure and an individual's name as "idiotic" is arrogant .. nothing short of.
     
  20. ramonmercado

    ramonmercado CyberPunk

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    Lets calm down now everyone or we'll end up with another water-bound body!
     
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  21. PeteS

    PeteS Ephemeral Spectre

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    An astonishingly weird coincidence indeed.
     
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  22. Austin Popper

    Austin Popper Devoted Cultist

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    Yep. Downright Fortean, I daresay. It's creepy as hell, but it does seem to strain credulity to try to make some kind of conspiracy out of it. There are plenty of more likely explanations for this tragic event.

    From my comfy chair, it does look like a case where the police didn't put much effort into the investigation, then felt the need to cover their asses when Elisa's body was found. I was unaware of the apparent tampering with the elevator video until someone pointed it out a page or two back. That's a big red flag. The embedded timer nails it, and Elisa looks far more competent in the "un-tampered" version. Lots of things about this have smelled bad ever since it happened.

    There is a disturbing list of lively, attractive young women who have disappeared off cruise ships, and this reminds me a lot of those stories. I spent most nights in hotels (of every sort) during my years as a tour bus driver, and there is plenty of opportunity for foul play in that industry. Just the fact that there are hundreds of rooms, many unoccupied, that the staff has easy access to can endlessly complicate something as simple as a search for a missing suitcase. Been there too many times.
     
  23. Spookdaddy

    Spookdaddy Cuckoo

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    But not half as idiotic as the perpetrators, if it were true - it would be a bit like finding out that Lee Harvey Oswald was actually a Bulgarian national called Ishot Presi Dentkennedy?

    (And that Jack Ruby was called Andthenis Hotishotpresidentkennedy?)
     
  24. PeteS

    PeteS Ephemeral Spectre

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    I saw what you did there.
     
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  25. PeteS

    PeteS Ephemeral Spectre

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    I can't actually believe that, on the basis of the information revealed, anyone could draw a conclusion other than this poor girl was murdered and that the authorities are conspiring to cover up either their gross incompetence or something else which they don't want the public to know. And I don't like conspiracy theories of any type usually.
     
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  26. EnolaGaia

    EnolaGaia I knew the job was dangerous when I took it ...

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    ... Or that the recently published study asserting dogs are more intelligent than cats:

    (http://forum.forteantimes.com/index.php?threads/dogs-more-intelligent-than-cats.63330/#post-1723679)

    ... is evidence of tech-induced feline devolution resulting from the introduction and proliferation of CAT scanners - which don't similarly affect canines as was the case with the earlier PET scanners.

    :evillaugh:
     
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  27. Swifty

    Swifty The Great Glass Elevator

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    Me neither. When someone comes up with a believable/non conspiracy theory cause of her death, I'll be the first in line to draw some relief at a sensible closure .. my gut instincts are more grounded to be honest .. she met some junkies, they killed her, they dumped her in the tank .. it's the who and how and when factors that haven't been satisfactorily explained yet. That leaves room for weirder explanations until everyone knows for sure.
     
  28. Austin Popper

    Austin Popper Devoted Cultist

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    Hotel staff? There is an awful lot of turnover in that industry, background checks are "too expensive" and finding decent help in Junkie Town can't be easy. As several others have said here, we don't really know much about what sort of investigation was done. It's easy to think it was not, shall we say, resource intensive when there was a missing traveler reported in a very seedy part of town. By the time the body in the tank was found, it was probably more like a cold case than an active investigation. Of course the authorities were all over it after that. I'd be interested to learn exactly where on the timeline the slowed-down elevator video was released.
     
  29. Naughty_Felid

    Naughty_Felid No longer interesting

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    No Enola is right it is idiotic.

    I've just seen some of the youtube stuff and I'm shaking my head. Illuminati??? Have you been possessed by GeorgeP or something?
     
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  30. Swifty

    Swifty The Great Glass Elevator

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    Thanks for your input.
     

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