Phantom Islands

Discussion in 'Earth Mysteries: The Land' started by gerhard1, Jan 28, 2017.

  1. gerhard1

    gerhard1 Abominable Snowman

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    Quite so, good and noble sir. That seamount, at 3 S, 83 E, is the closest feature in the area that is anywhere near possible, but it is still 11,000 ft below the surface. It couldn't be the islands in question.

    Weird.
     
  2. EnolaGaia

    EnolaGaia I knew the job was dangerous when I took it ... Staff Member

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    A side note ... I feel condolences are due those involved with cartography during the (Euro) age of exploration.

    The seafarers reporting new geographical items were blundering about without accurate means for even estimating a day's progress, generally sticking close by shorelines they could only sketchily describe. They had no more than a shaky grip on latitude, and longitude was still largely guesswork. Out on the open sea they reported and observed what they happened to encounter, but they frankly didn't (and couldn't ... ) know for certain where they were when they encountered it.

    This seemingly chaotic and futile context for the seafarers' reporting was still arguably better than the cartographers' lot. They had to make sense of all the isolated (and sometimes mutually contradictory) tidbits arriving weeks, months, and / or years after the actual sightings and then assemble a coherent visual representation of the mess.
     
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  3. gerhard1

    gerhard1 Abominable Snowman

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    Quite so. Until the invention of the marine chronometer by Scottish carpenter John Harrison in the mid 18th century that longitude could not be determined with any degree of accuracy. Latitude was much easier to determine.

    Bouvet Island, for example, was removed from navigational charts because longitude could not be fixed with any degree of accuracy and several of the islands mentioned in this thread were incorrectly charted due to errors in calculating longitude. In fact, Captain James Cook when he first sought Bouvet, started about three degrees to the east of Bouvet's position and continued in that direction until he gave up, concluding if memory serves, that Bouvet did not exist. Soon after and due to Cook's and others not finding the island, the Admiralty removed it from the charts. In the 1890's and once more in the 1920's, German survey ships located and correctly charted Bouvet, and it has remained on the charts ever since.

    A related item concerns Thompson Island.

    Here is the wiki article on Thompson.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thompson_Island_(South_Atlantic)
     
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  4. gerhard1

    gerhard1 Abominable Snowman

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  5. rynner2

    rynner2 Great Old One

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    WEBSITE:
    http://cornwalltidesreach.weebly.com/index.html
    Yep. The BBC covers this with no mention of The Bermuda Triangle:
    New island forms on North Carolina's Atlantic coast
    29 June 2017

    A new island has formed off the coast of North Carolina's Cape Hatteras National Seashore.
    The isle is a mile long (1.6km), depending on tides and weather, and separated from the mainland by a (330ft) 100 metre wide channel.

    It was first spotted by locals as a "bump" above the water in April, according to the Island Free Press.
    Photos taken by a Connecticut tourist have gone viral on Instagram, leading to a boost in curious visitors.
    Photographer Chad Koczera described encountering the island during his visit to Cape Point.

    "My fiancee and I were driving to the point after a storm to collect shells when we spotted an area we couldn't get to by car," he said.

    He described returning for his fifth time to the park, and to visit Cape Point where he had proposed marriage to his then-girlfriend.
    "I sent the drone up to check it out and noticed this beautiful island. We didn't get a chance to make it on to the island because of the strong current."

    The island is littered with old shipwrecks and whale bones that poke through its sands, says local historian Danny Couch.
    Experts say the shores of the Outer Banks are constantly shifting, as sandbars rise above or sink back below the water.

    Park superintendent Dave Hallac has cautioned visitors against trying to swim or walk across the channel to reach the island.
    Currents can swiftly carry away a person, while sharks and sting rays have been spotted in the area.
    Visitors are advised to use a kayak or paddleboard to reach Hatteras Island, as it's been dubbed.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-40438209

    "when we spotted an area we couldn't get to by car" - the American nightmare! :evillaugh:
     
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  6. RaM

    RaM Justified & Ancient

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    The one off Fleetwood continues to grow, the engine block it shows from a Schooner that
    went aground in WW11 that engine used to be visible from here about 3 miles away
    it looked about as big as a long wheel base land rover but you can no longer see it due
    to the island that is now visible at most states of tide.

     
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  7. RaM

    RaM Justified & Ancient

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    Some years ago the EU decides from a certain date no further pipelines to dump sewage into the sea
    would be allowed, this led to a spate of new pipelines to beat the ban, big business and governments are
    dead keen on the environment as long as it's not them paying ence the fast action to beat the ban.
    Now at the time we were told that the discharge would be a colorless odorless liquid, anyway it must have
    been a rather thick liquid as the pipe blocked so some bright spark decided to pump compressed air into
    the pipe to clear it only for the pipe to pop up from under the sand and float to the surface.
    "These pipes are the same as the one on the beach in the news and the same thing happened here were
    one pipe floated away and ended up on the beach but they could not refloat it and it had to be cut up".
    Right back to the story, they re dug the trench and by allowing the pipe to fill with water and fitting
    concrete weights managed to sink the pipe into it, they then brought in thousands of tones of stone
    to bury it and hopefully keep it buried.
    It is this stone that many of us suspect is now forming the island off Fleetwood, but now the plot thickens
    as the pipe as now made another brake for freedom likely due to all the stone disappearing and forming the
    island so if things run true to form they will do the same again and dump many more ship loads of stone
    on the pipe that will then migrate to join it's mates now part of the island which will continue to grow.
    It keeps us locals amused at any rate though I suspect the stone including the Island will eventually
    end up in and filling the Fleetwood channel as it is slowly moving this way, then again they may get
    clever and recycle the stone from the island which probably makes to much sense for them to try.

    [​IMG]
    Above is the coffer dam they built to work from,
    and below is the beast'y it's self it is much bigger in real life than it looks on here you can see some
    of the concrete saddles that were supposed to keep it down.
    For every action there is a opposite and often totally unexpected reaction, nature will alway win.
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2017
  8. Krepostnoi

    Krepostnoi Bug Bunny

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    The fascinating tale of Ravenserodd: an island that emerged off Spurn Point in early medieval times, becoming amongst other things a hotbed of piracy preying on the delicate souls of Grimsby. This displeased the Almighty (according to contemporary chroniclers, at any rate) and so the island was doomed to return whence it had come. Article also contains implicit advice not to invest in coastal property along the southern Yorkshire riviera.
     
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  9. Min Bannister

    Min Bannister Justified & Ancient

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    A mere "like" doesn't cut it. That really was fascinating K, thank you.
     
  10. Krepostnoi

    Krepostnoi Bug Bunny

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    :hoff:
     
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  11. blessmycottonsocks

    blessmycottonsocks Justified & Ancient

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  12. Coal

    Coal Polymath Renaissance Man

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    Fascinating, thank you. I drove along that coast last year as it happens.
     
  13. gerhard1

    gerhard1 Abominable Snowman

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    Looking up Thompson Island, supposedly near Bouvet, I happened across this German map from 1898.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
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  14. RaM

    RaM Justified & Ancient

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    I rather think the Island that has been growing off Fleetwood's days are numbered
    a 30,000 tone ship the Rockpiper is hovering about the area and I suspect the stone
    will be moved to cover a large outfall pipe that has a habit of floating to the surface,
    but mother nature being what she is I am willing to bet that over time the island
    will form again as the stone migrated back and the puny efforts of man to keep
    the pipe below the sand will come to nought.
     
  15. EnolaGaia

    EnolaGaia I knew the job was dangerous when I took it ... Staff Member

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    This may be an example of something that could easily have spawned phantom island sightings in past centuries.

    A volcanic island in Tonga emerged 3 years ago, but wasn't expected to last very long. It's managed to persist beyond original expectations, and its probable lifespan is now estimated to be somewhere between 6 and 30 years.

    In past centuries 6 to 30 years would have been a virtual eye-blink between explorer visits in the more remote parts of the oceans.

    FULL STORY: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...-that-rose-from-the-ashes-might-last-30-years

    NASA REPORT (cited herein): https://www.nasa.gov/feature/goddar...nd-made-of-tuff-stuff-likely-to-persist-years
     
  16. gerhard1

    gerhard1 Abominable Snowman

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    Something--I don't have the foggiest idea what--got me thinking of Pagoda Rock in the South Atlantic. Information concerning Pagoda Rock is hard to find, even using Al Gore's wondrous invention. The first I had heard of it was in Gould's book Oddities. All I knew of it was that it was vaguely associated with Bouvet as Gould had suggested a search for it as a hazard to navigation.

    I looked for a while but no joy, so I threw in the towel. That was some time back, possibly around the time I started this thread.

    A few days ago, I got bit and got thinking about it once more. This time, I included South Atlantic in my search terms and there she was. From the book, published in the UK,

    Chronological List of Antarctic Expeditions and Related Historical Events
    By R. K. Headland

    Cambridge University Press

    I couldn't do a C&P, but according to this source, a British naval vessel, HMS Pagoda, was doing a magnetic survey of the South Atlantic and the southern Indian Ocean in 1845 (also searching unsuccessfully for Bouvet) and spotted a rock at 60' 11" South and 4' 43" East. They named it Pagoda Rock, presumably after their vessel. Later searches revealed nothing at this location.

    I checked Google Earth at the coordinates listed, and there is nothing there, and the depth is 17,593 feet, around 5000 meters. What they saw, if anything, was possibly a piece of ice.
     
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  17. EnolaGaia

    EnolaGaia I knew the job was dangerous when I took it ... Staff Member

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    One of the unsuccessful attempts to re-locate Pagoda Rock is chronicled in Shaskleton's Last Voyage:

    SOURCE: http://scans.library.utoronto.ca/pdf/3/16/shackletonslastv00wilduoft/shackletonslastv00wilduoft.pdf
     
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  18. RaM

    RaM Justified & Ancient

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  19. JamesWhitehead

    JamesWhitehead Piffle Prospector

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  20. EnolaGaia

    EnolaGaia I knew the job was dangerous when I took it ... Staff Member

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    This National Geographic item is an overview of phantom islands that appeared on maps over recent centuries. It's an interview with Malachy Tallack, whose book on the subject - The Un-Discovered Islands - was cited here a year ago.

    One of the examples cited - Phelipeaux Island in Lake Superior - doesn't seem to have been mentioned here on FTMB before.

    This item includes a slide show of maps showing phantom / spurious islands.

    https://news.nationalgeographic.com/2018/01/maps-undiscovered-fake-islands-cartography/
     
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  21. gerhard1

    gerhard1 Abominable Snowman

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    Here is a video of Bouvet taken from a helicopter.



    The helicopter is from a research vessel, Russian, judging from the name.
     
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  22. EnolaGaia

    EnolaGaia I knew the job was dangerous when I took it ... Staff Member

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    Here's an update ... The sandbar / island is now gone.

    SOURCE: https://www.livescience.com/61964-north-carolina-sandbar-shelly-island-disappears.html

    June 2017:

    _96737100_capasdf3234234ture.jpg


    March 2018:

    ShellyIsland-Gone.jpg
     
  23. gerhard1

    gerhard1 Abominable Snowman

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    According to google, today is the 325th birthday of John Harrison. Harrison was the inventor of the marine chronometer which enabled navigators to precisely fix longitude.


    A belated birthday wish to John Harrison.
     
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  24. gerhard1

    gerhard1 Abominable Snowman

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    Lately, I have been reading my Complete Works of Edgar Allen Poe, and I am now in Poe's only novel, A Narrative of A Gordon Pym of Nantucket. In this story, Arthur Gordon Pym a young man seeking adventure, stows aboard a vessel headed for the southern Ocean, and is caught in the middle of a mutiny. He and his friend survive and with the help of one of the sailors, retakes the ship. The ship is soon foundering and is destroyed in a storm. Another ship sees them and takes them aboard, and the new ship takes them to where the Aurora Islands are supposed to be but the don't find any trace of them so they conclude they don't exist.

    The ship continues south and finds further adventures and makes many discoveries, but I won't spoil it.

    Anyway, I thought the mention of the Auroras was worth referring anyone who is interested to the story.

    Perhaps my only real criticism of Poe is that he takes so long to get to the point. Once you figure out what the stories are about, they are interesting, but, like HP Lovecraft, he is very long-winded and probably loses many readers through excess and tiresome verbiage.
     
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  25. Naughty_Felid

    Naughty_Felid No longer interesting

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    Some people love that about Lovecraft, I like to read him by candlelight when it's dark and stormy outside sitting by a crackling fire, shadows dancing across the walls. In the distance the sea can be heard crashing against the rocks. I turn the next page of "The Shadow over Innsmouth"....

    The the wife comes in switches the lights on and starts watching American Idol on the telly.

    Mind you the contestants and panel of those shows sure beat Lovecraft for 'Cosmic Horror".
     
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  26. gerhard1

    gerhard1 Abominable Snowman

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    Please satisfy my curiosity, if you would. Have you read the Pym story by Poe? I am about two-thirds of the way through it now and will likely finish it tonight in bed.

    My two favorite Lovecraft stories are The Dunwich Horror, and The Call of Cthulhu. I have got to get back to the story I am letting sit dormant that has been influenced by the Cthulhu mythos. Come to think of it, I have a number of stories I'm working on, and I might get hit by a car or something and not finish them. What a blow to literature that would be!!
     

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