Phantom Aeroplane Spotted Over Derbyshire

Discussion in 'Ghosts: General' started by Wreckless, Feb 14, 2017.

  1. Wreckless

    Wreckless Junior Acolyte

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    EXTRATERRESTRIAL TOURISM
    People keep spotting a ghost plane flying over the Peak District
    There have been several sightings of a Douglas Dakota aircraft, flown by the RAF in the mid 20th century

    BY CAROLINE MCGUIRE, DIGITAL TRAVEL EDITOR

    14th February 2017, 11:23 am

    Forget beautiful scenery and fresh country air, there’s now another reason to visit the Peak District – the supernatural.

    Tourists and locals have claimed to have spotted a mysterious ghost plane flying around the Derbyshire countryside.

    According to reports, there have been several sightings of a Douglas Dakota aircraft that used to be flown by the RAF in the mid 20th century, one of which was reported to have crashed in the area in the 1940s.

    Recently, a woman revealed that she was enjoying a country walk when she spotted a silent plane flying towards her, which then disappeared.

    She isn’t alone – local Pam Orridge also saw a similar apparition while driving with her son nearly the village of Rowsley a few years ago.

    She told the Derbyshire Times: “Suddenly in front of us was an aircraft flying very low towards us, so low we thought it would crash into us, but then it banked sideways and disappeared.”

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/living/285...-a-ghost-plane-flying-over-the-peak-district/
     
  2. escargot1

    escargot1 Beloved of Ra

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    Hasn't this been known of for years? Not to say it isn't a good thing to see again, of course!
     
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  3. JamesWhitehead

    JamesWhitehead Piffle Prospector

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    I don't think there's anything new under the Sun's headline.

    There are some interesting tales of low-flying craft in the Peaks and Longdendale seems a weirdness window.

    It is also an area where aircraft approaching Manchester switch on their powerful landing-lights. I always got a full-frontal view as I approached the Motorway around Bredbury. :)
     
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  4. rynner2

    rynner2 Great Old One

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    Yes, I've just suggested on Reorganisation that this new threadlet be merged with an earlier thread on airfield and aviation ghosts.
     
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  5. escargot1

    escargot1 Beloved of Ra

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    I wonder if it's in my Ghosts of the Air book?
     
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  6. AgProv

    AgProv Master of Uncertainty and Doubt

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    Pam Orridge? Any relation to Genesis P?
     
  7. EnolaGaia

    EnolaGaia I knew the job was dangerous when I took it ...

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    Specimens of the DC-3 / C-47 / Dakota are still in service. As of 2014 Air Atlantique was flying at least 2 of them out of Coventry:

    http://www.warbirdsnews.com/warbirds-news/air-atlantique-dc-3-dakotas.html

    The use of these planes for UK passenger / excursion service was terminated in 2008, because they couldn't reasonably be retrofitted to conform to new Euro safety standards (e.g., inflatable passenger escape chutes).

    They're also common visitors to air shows and similar events.

    Anyway ... The aircraft sightings aren't necessarily ghosts just because they're DC-3's.
     
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  8. Ermintruder

    Ermintruder Existential pixelfixer

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    Indeed- and sometimes they aren't ghosts, they can be C-130 Hercules military aircraft.

    I say this because it is a bewildering fact that average members of the UK public have, commonly in the past, mistaken and reported the Hercules (a four-engined propellor-bladed transport/utility aircraft) as being a "WW2 Dakota" (a twin engined much-smaller aircraft).

    The RAF still flies around 30 of these Hercs, and unlike the rarer C17 or A400s, will sometimes fly them in what could be considered (for their size) unorthodox flight profiles for tactical training purposes- fast and low; rapid banking/swoops & dives; use of ridge/nap terrain for practice protection against SAMs; pull-up decelerations and practice supply drops.

    Inexperienced people that aren't expecting to see a large military aircraft can be as transfixed as if they've seen something supernatural, coming up with highly-flawed witness statements, conflating and confusing almost everything they see.

    The Peak District in the UK is officially part of Low Flying Area 8 (LFA8) and has a low average of 200 fixed-wing military training flights per year, and rotary-engined aircraft will, by definition loiter/linger/lurk/leave much more quietly than fighter jets (see https://www.gov.uk/government/uploa...nt_data/file/27442/UK_Military_Low_Flying.pdf )

    I've experienced wind conditions when a ground observer could be horizontally-seperated from a low-flying turboprop aircraft by less than a mile, and hear almost no engine noise at all. Couple that with flying in low light conditions, with groundprox RADAR/night vision goggles/tactical navigation systems (and even, for tactical operations training, sometimes no nav lights/strobes).....

    I would be very cautious to immediately ascribe a supernatural explanation to reports such as this. I wouldn't discount them entirely (or I wouldn't be right here, right now) but I've seen real aircraft do some extremely-surprising things (that's in them, and under them)
     
  9. RaM

    RaM Abominable Snowman

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    Theres also supposed to be a ghostly Wellington that fly's down one of the North Wales
    valleys the one with the A5 running up it I think but could be wrong, about 5 years back
    we were running up the North Wales coast rd when the wife says "there's a Dakota coming up
    behind, " we were tramping on a bit and it seemed to take ages but sure enough a DC3 in
    RAF colours passed us just cruising along it turned inland likely on it's way back to Carnethon
    Airport as I think one was based there at the time, when they built them they built them to last.
     
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  10. blessmycottonsocks

    blessmycottonsocks Abominable Snowman

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    Bumped my post from last month on the Timeslip thread:

    "Just been reading a few similarly-worded accounts on the Internet of what would appear to be a classic time slip occurring during WW2.

    The common points seem to be that a Halifax bomber was returning to England from a wartime mission and was being observed by some ground crew on its approach to its home airfield.
    It aborted its landing at the last moment, pulled up and flew around in a holding pattern, before finally landing normally. At the mission debrief, the pilot claimed that on his final approach, the location of where the runway should have been appeared to be obscured with a mass of odd-looking "fuzzy" houses. On flying around in a loop back to the same location however, the airfield then appeared exactly as normal and he could land without incident. He put it down to misperception or hallucination due to his extreme fatigue and thought little more of it.
    Many years after the war, the pilot drove to the area for old time's sake, only to find that the wartime airfield was no more and had been redeveloped into a housing estate.
    On that day in WW2, had the pilot caught a brief glimpse of the future?

    I will do some digging, try to fill in some more details and establish the provenance of this story. Hope it's a genuine account rather than fiction! If the former, then I'd love to know the precise location of the airfield and whether there have been any subsequent accounts of residents on the estate claiming to have spotted an eerily silent and very low-flying wartime bomber passing over their houses."
     
  11. Mr_Nemo

    Mr_Nemo Ephemeral Spectre

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    I wonder if the 'plane was spotted near "Mam Tor"?.
     
  12. pornosonic1975

    pornosonic1975 Junior Acolyte

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    Back in the early 1990's, I saw what I believe to be a phantom C-54 Skymaster/DC-4 flying over Wigan in very bad weather and as I have a passion for aircraft, I know exactly what I saw! I posted it here a few years ago,.
     
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  13. CarlosTheDJ

    CarlosTheDJ Justified & Ancient

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    I've flown on a Dakota from Baginton airfield near Coventry! I went up with my Grandad for his birthday (at least 20 years ago now). It was definitely not a ghost, but it was almost as scary.
     
  14. escargot1

    escargot1 Beloved of Ra

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    Yes, I remember!

    Most people couldn't identify a plane in the sky unless it was a WW1 biplane or a jet. I used to read about planes and was able to point out a passing Lancaster Bomber to neighbour some years ago. (It was air show season and we're on the flight path so no surprise, although the neighbour was gobsmacked and briefly tried the 'A mere woman can't know that so I'm afraid you MUST be wrong, my dear!' performance.)

    However, the people who saw what they thought was a ghost plane in the Sun report above weren't claiming to see a specific plane, just one that appeared to approach them and then vanish. It was the disappearing act that fazed them, not the type of aircraft.

    Whatever, I wish I could see one!
     
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  15. Bigphoot2

    Bigphoot2 Justified & Ancient

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    That reminds me of an incident I read about a few years ago. If I remember, it took place between the wars at an airfield in Scotland - possibly East Lothian. A pilot was up in an old biplane and flew into some cloud over the airfield, when he emerged he looked down and saw aircraft he didn't recognise lined up by the runway and buildings which were new.
    He flew back into the cloud and when he emerged everything was back to normal. It was years later in WW2 that he returned to the airfield and it suddenly struck him that it was now the way he had seen it years earlier.

    I'll get hunting and see if I can dig up more.
     
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  16. blessmycottonsocks

    blessmycottonsocks Abominable Snowman

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  17. Bigphoot2

    Bigphoot2 Justified & Ancient

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  18. Ermintruder

    Ermintruder Existential pixelfixer

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    Whilst of course this can happen conventionally due to:

    • intervisibility (ie being obscured by geography, relative to the view-line perspective of an observer)
    • mirage 'absorption' (a thermally-generated optical disappearance layer, near the surface of a runway or ground-ridge)
    • paint-scheme / versus sky brightness/darkness (magnified by an axial aircraft attitude perspective change relative to an observer)
    ..... I consider these to be mundane aeronautical examples, not Fortean puzzles.

    In the US, at the peak of the 80s UFO flaps, there were a number of interesting reports of aircraft allegedly appearing to change shape into UFOs (ie classic disc or cigar). Whilst some of those reports (most of which came from the US) will be standard fata morgana / trompe-l'œil perceptual misinterpretations, the really interesting ones were those more-rarerly reported from multiple angles and/or coupled with dramatic changes in speed.

    I also wonder about the substantive reality behind meta-reports and myth associated with Project Bluebeam, and the Norwegian spiral.

    Also, limited details exist regarding Russian experiments to optically-project images of military aircraft flying in formation, generated by other aircraft at height (I seem to remember reports mentioning this, dated in the 1930s)
     
  19. EnolaGaia

    EnolaGaia I knew the job was dangerous when I took it ...

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    My recollection is that these experiments (within that pre-WWII timeframe) were motivated by an objective of proactively confusing spotters and / or gunners on the ground. The significance of that early 20th century timeframe for these notions / experiments is that their purported military benefit (i.e., avoiding shoot-downs) was certainly diminished, and arguably nullified, by the arrival of radar.

    In other words, one could reasonably argue the proper follow-on to projecting optical / visible decoys was chaff.
     
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  20. EnolaGaia

    EnolaGaia I knew the job was dangerous when I took it ...

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    Let me add another item ... There's a temporal / reaction time factor that can skew perception of aircraft - especially if they're initially observed approaching the observer.

    A decade ago I posted about sitting *on* the end of a commercial runway and watching airliners come in for a landing right at / over me:

    http://forum.forteantimes.com/index.php?threads/identified-flying-object.29157/#post-697124

    In that post I mentioned how the approaching plane seemed to take forever to arrive (skewing one's sense of movement in general) and how this serene lead-in transformed into a sort of explosive rush once it did.

    There was another curious aspect of the experience I didn't mention in that earlier post ... No matter how quickly I turned around as / after the plane swooped over my head, it was amazingly far down the runway (distant) compared to what one would anticipate from its seemingly slow approach. The subjective sense of disjunction between approaching and receding speeds was dramatic enough to make one wonder if a few seconds had been 'lost'.

    My point is that this perceived speed disjunction could be sufficient to make an observer miss / lose track of an aircraft initially seen as directly approaching - especially in a setting with intervisibility constraints.
     
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  21. Ermintruder

    Ermintruder Existential pixelfixer

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    This immediately-suggests a perceptual difference that is, somehow, exponential (or at least non-linear) versus linear.

    It is also an inverse metaventive instance of a metaphorical idiom ("ground-rush"), being inferentially-unused to not describe what it, in itself, actually is.

    A nice unusual example of the non-use of language not being used (but only if one reads it that way, by it's absence). This might (not) be said to be the algebraic method.....with the 3-D geometry being that which is being described.
     
  22. The English Rose

    The English Rose Junior Acolyte

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  23. AnonyJoolz

    AnonyJoolz Captainess Sensible

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  24. Ermintruder

    Ermintruder Existential pixelfixer

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    Wind direction can almost-eliminate the apparent generated engine noise from an aircraft, relative to a given vantage point. This is especially-true of propellor/turbo-prop powered aircraft (as opposed to jets or turbofans).

    The comments about 'Britain's Bermuda Triangle', and vague allusions to magnetic compass disturbance, are ill-advised. Even back when aircraft were heavily-dependant upon traditional compasses, it would be very unusual to be navigating just using this one device.

    Modern (and even not-so modern) aircraft are now cleared to use GPS (or even differential GPS) as a primary navaid. Aircraft also use radiofrequency VOR/NDB positioning where available (or for long-haul flights, LORAN and variants) and, additionally military aircraft can also use TACAN (and increasingly, airborne weather & situational RADAR systems, even in civil aircraft). Also, the increasing use of groundprox RADAR autoalarms help prevent CFIT incidents.

    So I say no. No triangle. Just spikey geography, compound accidents and statistical agglomeration.
     
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