Patterson-Gimlin Bigfoot Film

Discussion in 'Cryptozoology: Manbeasts & Mystery Apes' started by Anonymous, Nov 25, 2001.

  1. ramonmercado

    ramonmercado CyberPunk

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    Tom Slick and the Search for Yeti, by Loren Coleman is well worth reading. I haven't read Tom Slick: True Life Encounters in Cryptozoology
     
  2. stuneville

    stuneville Amministratore principale Staff Member

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    I covered most of this in detail in the "Patty at 50" article. I'll repeat the salient bits here.

    Regarding the height, and the footprints: here I cite Dr Don Grieve, Reader in Biomechanics at London Free Hospital who analysed the film in the early 70s, and Dr John Napier.
    As for whether there was a third party in on it, etc, and as is discussed at length earlier in this thread, this is the distillation of the possibilities:
    Yeah, regarding the suit..
    Likewise, Napier stated he couldn't "find the zipper", which is the first time the phrase was used, incidentally.
     
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  3. lordmongrove

    lordmongrove Justified & Ancient

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  4. Clear Light

    Clear Light Junior Acolyte

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    I used to do quite a lot of work writing sleeve notes for reissue CDs, and it was while I was researching a group called the Velvet Illusions that I discovered a connection to the Patterson/Gimlin film. The Velvet Illusions came of of Yakima in Washington state and were managed by one George Radford, his son George Jnr was a member of the band. Radford and his wife had loaned Patterson some money to rent a movie camera, the very one that the footage was filmed on. It seemed to be common knowledge that it was a hoax, some of the boys in the band said they had seen the bigfoot suit when they had visited the Patterson ranch. The Velvet Illusions even recorded a song titled 'Bigfoot', sadly the recording is MIA.
     
  5. oldrover

    oldrover Justified & Ancient

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    Sadly I missed that, I avoid going into town as much as possible and it wasn't sold in the out lying shops.

    Here's a Wiki article o the band, with mention of 'Bigfoot' near the end.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Velvet_Illusions

    Very interesting post Clear Light.
     
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  6. Clear Light

    Clear Light Junior Acolyte

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  7. Kingsize Wombat

    Kingsize Wombat Abominable Snowman

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  8. oldrover

    oldrover Justified & Ancient

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    Very interesting Clear Light. So, if I'm reading this right, the inference from the author might be that this Radford had commissioned 'Bigfoot' for Patterson's film, either the documentary or the PG film? Or possibly to cash in on thePG film? Either way, the fact that he was financing Patterson's camera suggests he was in on it somewhere.
     
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  9. Clear Light

    Clear Light Junior Acolyte

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    All I know is that George Radford was a local businessman, and that he and his wife ran a successful upholstery business. Mrs Radford made the band matching costumes.
     
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  10. hopkarma

    hopkarma Junior Acolyte

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  11. oldrover

    oldrover Justified & Ancient

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    Hopkarma, these posts were made last summer. I have no idea who said what, or where my statement ends and your reply begins. I'm not going to go back over all this to work it out, but I appreciate, and am interested in,your take on things and what was said.

    Top left is a reply number, in this case it's 551, please quote this so it's easy to check back. Aside from that, and I bear in mind how much I struggled with this a few years ago, just click on the word 'reply', bottom left, then make sure your text appears outside the the word 'QUOTE' in the brackets. Otherwise it's going to be too confusing to draw anything from, and frankly I don't want to miss what your point is.
     
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  12. hopkarma

    hopkarma Junior Acolyte

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    If the PGF was simply an outake from an unfinished docu-drama about bigfoot, why was it shot without sound, and in an almost unwatchable, hurky jerky, style? If RP spent the money (he did not have) that would have been needed to fabricate a beyond state of the art at the time bigfoot suit, doncha think he might want to show it off a bit? Give us a half way decent closeup of it? Otherwise a cheap, Lost In Space suit would have sufficed for the way it was filmed...
     
  13. hopkarma

    hopkarma Junior Acolyte

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    This information about Kodachrome is very misleading. Independent labs were processing Kodachrome since 1954 as a result of United States v Eastman Kodak Co, which allowed independent labs access to the chemicals needed to process Kodachrome film. Any lab or serious amatuer could have processed this film in 1967...
     
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  14. EnolaGaia

    EnolaGaia I knew the job was dangerous when I took it ...

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    Kodachrome still photos - yes. Kodachrome movie footage - no.

    There was one non-Kodak shop on the west coast that offered Kodachrome movie film processing, using a proprietary process developed by a couple of ex-Kodak employees. They were operating in Palo Alto CA (site of the sole Kodak processing facility in the region) as of 1967, but went out of business in or by the early 1970's.

    The existence of this second processing possibility does nothing to resolve the problem of how film exposed on a Friday afternoon and not shipped away until after hours Friday night could have made it to Palo Alto, been developed (a multi-hours long process), and delivered to DeAtley's home by early Sunday afternoon.
     
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  15. EnolaGaia

    EnolaGaia I knew the job was dangerous when I took it ...

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    There's no need to shoot footage for a documentary with sound, because any narration or other soundtrack would be added in post-production and final editing.

    In any case, filming with sound entails more elaborate and expensive equipment (i.e., more money) and a lot more risks and hassles when done in the field.
     
  16. hopkarma

    hopkarma Junior Acolyte

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    It is not clear at all though.
    There is a video post earlier in this discussion of Gimlin giving a talk before a group of people. In that he say RP wanted to go investigate the recent footprints with Gimlin, but he (Gimlin) was working a seasonal job (roofing?) and that he couldn't just take off. But then it got to be the end of the season for the work G was doing, so he got hold of RP and said OK let's go...
     
  17. hopkarma

    hopkarma Junior Acolyte

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    I just did a quick search and could not find it, but I have seen on the youtubes a version of the "complete" PGF that differs in 2 ways from the usual one that is up - there is a little rise that both RP and BG ride their horse over in quick (edited) succession, and there is some leader between the "location" footage and Patty's appearance. That always bothered me; why would there be leader in the middle of a complete reel. I saw it several times, so I know it is out there...
     
  18. hopkarma

    hopkarma Junior Acolyte

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    I have been reading about the PGF for decades; I agree that RP was making a documentary. I disagree with those who say it was a "dramatic documentary".
     
  19. hopkarma

    hopkarma Junior Acolyte

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    In 1967 a 16mm sound camera would have been just as easy to rent as one without sound; since RP wasn't going to pay for it anyway the difference in rental would not matter. However, having to take that silent film to a studio to overdub narration, dialogue, natural sound etc (this is a "dramatic" doc, right? Gotta recreate the scene, from RP and BG chatting on the trail, coming upon Patty, the horses reacting - this is a dramtic doc, right?) would be very costly indeed, and they would probably want the $$ up front, or at least at the end of the session. If the plan was to make a Hollywood worthy piece of footage they would not have taken this route...
     
  20. hopkarma

    hopkarma Junior Acolyte

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    Thanks - I think I've got it now; plus I've almost caught up to the present in my reading here...
     
  21. hopkarma

    hopkarma Junior Acolyte

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    So what market was this for in 1967? Art house? Hardly. There was almost no independent film scene at the time. The PGF need not be big budget, but if it was to be a theatrical release at that time certain standards of professionalism were necessary to get your film even noticed. Y'all pushing this drama doc thing are basically saying RP invented the Blair Witch technique; the PGF does not represent what either RP or BG actually saw, but what the camera saw. No one in 1967 would have thought this is how to represent a Bigfoot sighting for a movie audience...
     
  22. hopkarma

    hopkarma Junior Acolyte

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    Bigfoot/Sasquatch has been reported/written about going back to the 1800's, though the name came later. Roger Patterson became interested because of articles which he had read; he then wrote a book which was published in 1966. His next step was to make a documentary film about Bigfoot; while out scouting locations based on recently reported Bigfoot tracks he claims he filmed one...
     
  23. hopkarma

    hopkarma Junior Acolyte

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    The Velvet Illusions - another example of Bigfoot as a popular phenomenon before the PGF...
     
  24. EnolaGaia

    EnolaGaia I knew the job was dangerous when I took it ...

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    The inserted leader most probably reflected the history of the physical film (re-?)assembled into the 'complete' film presentation you recall.

    There have always been pesky ambiguities about:

    - how many 1st-generation prints were ever made from the original film;
    - how many nth-generation prints were ever made;
    - whether any particular such subsequent prints were made from the entire PGF original footage (versus selected portions of the original);
    - whether the original film reels remained intact (all in one piece, as originally filmed); and
    - whether, and to what extent, subsequently presented or copied prints were assembled or re-assembled from multiple physical films (e.g., combining sections from different prints).

    The 'location' and Patty sighting sections of the original film weren't originally presented as a continuous whole. Attention was focused on the sighting footage. My point is that the presence of a head (front end) leader preceding the sighting footage might simply represent the place at which a separate (free-standing; with leader) print of the sighting alone was spliced onto or edited into another print of the 'location' footage.

    Another plausible explanation relates to configuring the film for the expected presentation. If a film were to be presented in sections and paused (e.g., to allow a live speaker to talk before continuing the film) it was common practice to insert blank or leader bits to mark the gaps between presentation sections. This gave a visual cue that it was time to pause. It was necessary to have some dead footage because film projectors don't start / stop / pause instantaneously, and there was no means for indexing directly to a given frame like we can do with (e.g.) digital recordings.
     
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  25. dr wu

    dr wu Doctor Prog

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    If the Velvet Illusions story is true then it's likely the whole thing was indeed a hoax.
     
  26. hopkarma

    hopkarma Junior Acolyte

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    Yes - not one attempt has produced a suit that looks like the RP "suit", or is as convincingly without the zipper. RP had no money to throw around. How did he get a beyond state of the art, custom fitted, seamless, Bigfoot suit made without at least a big downpayment? Considering the decision to go with "Blair Witch" footage, there would not even have been need for such an expense; a Lost In Space suit or three would have done just fine, right? RP had no idea digital technology would allow for stabilizing his footage decades in the future; this advance has allowed not flaws but (some say) muscle movement to become visible...
     
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  27. Swifty

    Swifty Generation Y

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    .. or bags of marbles sewn/glued inside the suit in the areas where natural muscles would be to realistically simulate that kind of rolling movement .. not my wild theory but a recognised F/X artist technique perhaps best illustrated watching the movement of artist Marc Shostrum's natural movement illusion 'Henrietta's' breasts in Evil Dead 2 ..

    Shostrum's foam latex suit had no body hair (apart from punched in hair on the head appliance), the body suit was worn by a very thin Ted Raimi, director Sam Raimi's brother.

    Ted had infamous extreme physical difficulties performing in that suit because he was wearing it during a heatwave ..

    (80's U.S. 'Gorezone' magazine went into small details about the marbles in a bag to simulate muscle mass movement technique, I've just tried to re find that reproduced article online but haven't had any luck yet) .. here's a pic from it:

    Ted'stitsED2.jpg

    ... and just for fun and because I enjoyed making up one of my mates for Cromer carnival as a zombie one year and was pleased at how it turned out :

    Sy outside Morrisons in Cromer

    Sy mini zombie.jpg

    more Sy under different too bright lighting .. I managed to make a little kid cry when he saw Sy (his left cheek is 'bitten out' but you can't see that in this pic) .. my flatmate helped me glue an air bladder under that area so Sy could pump it up and down with tube hidden down his sleeve glued to a turkey baster type pump bulb:

    Syzombie3 (1).jpg

    .. an even less impressively lit Sy with my my old flat mate in shot ..

    Syzombie2.jpg

    .. apart from me showing off, the point is that 'static' make ups and especially full body suits can be animated using a number of different techniques depending on a number of factors: the angle they're to be seen from, how they're lit, how they're perceived to be moving, how long they're required to be seen and often more effectively, how short an amount of time they're planned to be seen ..

    Sy chatting up Spiderman ..

    SyspiderSy.jpg
     
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2018
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  28. hopkarma

    hopkarma Junior Acolyte

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  29. hopkarma

    hopkarma Junior Acolyte

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    Yes, I have read the bag of marbles idea before; this crap costume keeps getting more and more elaborate, don't it? They were not on a soundstage with a makeup and costume crew; it was just two guys out in the forest for a week(s?). There was no choice in lighting, and it's not like a crane shot was an option. Also consider that these fine muscle details are things that RP was not planning on letting the viewer see (if RP were faking this) anyway; therefore the Blair Witch style cinematography. He could not have forseen how digital technology has enabled this film to be made imminently more watchable/examinable, and he would have seen no reason to spend more than he had to since he was never intending to give the viewer a good, long, look...
     
  30. GNC

    GNC King-Sized Canary

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    The suit doesn't look elaborate, just your average George Barrows-style gorilla outfit. No need for marbles or muscle tone, if anything it looks baggy. Pretty easy to go on an excursion, get a mate to put it on, roll the camera for a minute et voila, one instant talking point.
     

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