Mystery of the woggin

Discussion in 'Cryptozoology - general' started by lordmongrove, Mar 18, 2017.

  1. oldrover

    oldrover Justified and Ancient

    Messages:
    3,297
    Likes Received:
    805
    Trophy Points:
    113
    LOCATION:
    Wales
    I hope you don't mind Lordmongrove but I think this is such a great find of yours I've shared it elsewhere.
     
  2. Ermintruder

    Ermintruder Existential pixelfixer

    Messages:
    3,315
    Likes Received:
    3,353
    Trophy Points:
    113
    LOCATION:
    Proximate
    So were penguins and auks related at the same branch level as (say) bees and wasps? (Hymenoptera) Or alligators and crocodiles as crocodilia?

    I reckon auks could be called pendhus (black heads, in Welsh...(which is close to cenndhus, in Gaelic)

    [​IMG]
    http://www.projectbritain.com/calendar/June/auk.html
     
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2017
  3. davidplankton

    davidplankton Justified and Ancient

    Messages:
    3,856
    Likes Received:
    3,831
    Trophy Points:
    113
    That's going to take some digging. And bringing insects into it is only going to make things more complicated.

    I don't know, but very similar looking birds can be of very different lineage.
    Take House Martins and Swallows compared to the Swift. The Swift is a very different kind of bird to the other two although it looks similar and has very similar behaviour.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apodiformes
     
    Ermintruder likes this.
  4. oldrover

    oldrover Justified and Ancient

    Messages:
    3,297
    Likes Received:
    805
    Trophy Points:
    113
    LOCATION:
    Wales
    No, both come from ancient groups of birds, the penguins are Sphenisciformes, only penguins, and are first known from the early Paleocene. While Great Auks/woggins/pen gwyns are Charadiformes, an order first known from the mid Paleocene. The Great Auk's closest living relative is the razorbill. Earliest known auks as in the group that includes puffins, guillemots etc is about 35mya. Or something like all of that anyway.

    They look similar because they both have the same countershading shared by many marine animals. And lived a similar lifestyle. Crucially though the Great Auk seems to have been more adapted to life in the water and paid the price. Not that it had to, or that it was inevitable, it was just our wanton destructiveness that wiped it out. See the C4 documentary.

    Great Auk

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/content/...q0gSBkzcH_-jHFXstKOOPHi_e1tpOIk75CAYQiDp0.jpg

    Razorbill

    https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/...qLNOm8r7BR2FcFZai5vfXoZ4j6L-WxVZDm_7eTY6EVxTb

    Mere penguin

    https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/...snOKyQZNPjyS9wthPShA_GKTMP23sBRo7efsdUIOJDnhM
     
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2017
  5. blessmycottonsocks

    blessmycottonsocks Great Old One

    Messages:
    754
    Likes Received:
    910
    Trophy Points:
    93

    Or penn dhu in Cornish. I was brought up in a part of St Austell Cornwall called pondhu, which may have a similar etymology.
     
    Ermintruder likes this.
  6. oldrover

    oldrover Justified and Ancient

    Messages:
    3,297
    Likes Received:
    805
    Trophy Points:
    113
    LOCATION:
    Wales
    It'd be 'penn du' in Welsh.
     
    Ermintruder likes this.
  7. kamalktk

    kamalktk Justified and Ancient

    Messages:
    2,581
    Likes Received:
    1,650
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Birds on the brain, or woggins on the noggin?
     
  8. lordmongrove

    lordmongrove Justified and Ancient

    Messages:
    1,575
    Likes Received:
    515
    Trophy Points:
    113
    LOCATION:
    Exeter
    WEBSITE:
    www.cfz.org.uk
    No its just slight convergence. Auks were called penguins before the birds we call penguins were discovered. Sorry iof that's as clear as the coal house on a foggy day.
     
    oldrover and Ermintruder like this.
  9. lordmongrove

    lordmongrove Justified and Ancient

    Messages:
    1,575
    Likes Received:
    515
    Trophy Points:
    113
    LOCATION:
    Exeter
    WEBSITE:
    www.cfz.org.uk
    Be my guest old mate.
     
    oldrover likes this.
  10. lordmongrove

    lordmongrove Justified and Ancient

    Messages:
    1,575
    Likes Received:
    515
    Trophy Points:
    113
    LOCATION:
    Exeter
    WEBSITE:
    www.cfz.org.uk
    oldrover, Coal, davidplankton and 2 others like this.
  11. amyasleigh

    amyasleigh Great Old One

    Messages:
    769
    Likes Received:
    220
    Trophy Points:
    43
    A tenuous and coincidental connection, re the Lofoten Islands; but I seem to remember reading long ago, in a piece about the Great Auk -- I strongly suspect, in one of Commander Rupert Gould's books of articles about "unexplained facts" -- of what would seem likely the last-known report of a Great Auk sighting: one reportedly seen swimming off the Lofotens, circa 1865 -- a couple of decades after the generally-agreed-on extinction date.
     
    oldrover and Ermintruder like this.
  12. amyasleigh

    amyasleigh Great Old One

    Messages:
    769
    Likes Received:
    220
    Trophy Points:
    43
    I feel that the word “woggin” would have been one likely to appeal to Patrick O’Brian, author of the Aubrey / Maturin series of nautical historical novels, about the Royal Navy in the Napoleonic Wars era. In that series the author uses -- and clearly revels in -- much seagoing period jargon / slang. However, going by what I can see from those books by the author, in my possession – although his dual heroes, and their various ships, encounter “true” penguins in the southern reaches of the globe; and, briefly, great auks in the North Atlantic; the word “woggin” does not feature in shipboard discourse. The books’ characters are -- after all -- naval types, not whalers...


    The great-auk episode occurs in the novel The Surgeon's Mate: in which Captain Jack Aubrey and his ship’s surgeon and good friend Stephen Maturin, are travelling on a Canadian ship from Halifax, Nova Scotia, to Britain; after experiencing various imbroglios in the United States, consequent on the War of 1812. In the area of the Grand Banks, Maturin – an impassioned amateur naturalist – is chatting with the ship’s second mate, and the conversation gets around to great auks (the species then becoming very rare; but at that time still a few decades away from ultimate extinction). It turns out that the second mate has had to do with great auks, chiefly in the shape of killing them in large numbers. Maturin has a struggle to stay civil with the guy – still, he’s only trying to be friendly and helpful. They refer to the creatures as “penguins” and “garefowl”; but the w-word does not feature. Maturin sees from the ship, in time, a couple of swimming great auks; and the second mate, hoping to please him, brings him a dead specimen which the ship’s crew had been planning to use as bait for fish.
     
    oldrover and Ermintruder like this.

Share This Page