Martian Miscellanies

Discussion in 'New Science' started by Anonymous, Sep 12, 2001.

  1. blessmycottonsocks

    blessmycottonsocks Abominable Snowman

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    "Mars' atmosphere is said to be 100 times thinner than that of the Earth."

    Compare say the summit of Everest (300 mbar) with the surface of Hellas Planitia on Mars though (12 mbar) and the difference is a mere 25 times.


     
  2. Mythopoeika

    Mythopoeika I am a meat popsicle

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    It's also worth bearing in mind that some forms of life don't need the full 15 psi of pressure that we need. Microscopic life, insects, some plants, etc.
     
  3. hunck

    hunck Justified & Ancient

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    Impermeable force field. It's the only way.
     
  4. Mythopoeika

    Mythopoeika I am a meat popsicle

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    Let us know when you have one that works. Thanks.
     
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  5. hunck

    hunck Justified & Ancient

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    As you have gleaned, it wasn't an entirely serious post, just a flippant way of pointing out the unlikely feasibility of transporting enough heavy duty mining / excavating machinery to Mars to create an underground facility any time soon..
     
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  6. eburacum

    eburacum Papo-furado

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    The 'easy' way to put a colony underground would be to inflate a dome then cover it in a layer of soil (regolith). This could be done by half a dozen astronauts with buckets and spades; because of low gravity this would be slightly easier on Mars than it would be on Earth, but of course people don't tend to shovel dirt on Earth wearing spacesuits.
     
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  7. Bigphoot2

    Bigphoot2 Justified & Ancient

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    I wonder if it might be possible to use something along these lines - although I'd imagine they'd have an issue transporting concrete to Mars, they might be able to use local materials
     
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  8. EnolaGaia

    EnolaGaia I knew the job was dangerous when I took it ...

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    This sort of free-standing ferrocement construction requires steel reinforcement materials (ranging from chicken-wire style mesh to conventional rebar) to be embedded within a concrete layer which is molded (i.e., 'erected') using an inflatable membrane. Once 'plastered' and 'inflated' the concrete layer has to dry / cure.

    I suspect supplying the requisite metal (or whatever ... ) reinforcement framing would be at least as big a problem as figuring out how to make suitable concrete from available materials at the Martian site. Another problem is that this relatively convenient construction approach requires fairly heavy equipment (e.g., compressors, excavation gear, the inflatable membrane). Finally, the requirement for large amounts of water might be the biggest deal-killer of all.

    The paradigmatic examples (Binishells) require exacting procedures to get a structurally reliable product, and any single fault or deficiency early on could doom the outcome.

    Such domes are not usually intended for bearing loads other than their own weight, so they're best suited for surface structures. I recall reading about experimental builders back in the 1970's using ferrocement to line excavated spaces (as opposed to raising a free-standing framework). Given the earlier references to subterranean placement, this sort of lining / finishing could end up being the extent of practical application of this sort of technique.

    Some of the notable dome failures in Australia are reviewed at:

    https://failures.wikispaces.com/Binishell Domes

    In general, these failure autopsies illustrate how critical it is to execute the procedures 'just so'. More specifically, I'm struck by the fact that temperature fluctuations during the drying period were blamed for weakening the structures from the outset. Daily temperature fluctuations on Mars are far more extreme than the variations encountered here.

    My guess is that some variation on this approach's themes could contribute to a feasible Martian construction strategy, but for now, at least, I'm sensing more problem than promise with the notion of literally applying this technique.
     
  9. hunck

    hunck Justified & Ancient

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    NASA scientists are exploring the idea of putting a magnetic shield around Mars, in an attempt to restore the Red Planet's atmosphere and make it habitable.

    I'll leave it to others more qualified to tell me how feasible or ludicrous this is.
     
  10. EnolaGaia

    EnolaGaia I knew the job was dangerous when I took it ...

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  11. OneWingedBird

    OneWingedBird Beloved of Ra

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    Also the problem that Mars's atmosphere is what we'd call a vacuum if we had it in a container on earth, so even minor structual faults mean leaks or worse a rapid decompression. Maybe even explosive decompression. Structures need to be massively reliable and mantainble.
     
  12. Mythopoeika

    Mythopoeika I am a meat popsicle

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    I'm not qualified at all, but...
    AFAIK, the way to do it would be to restart volcanic processes on Mars. As Mars has been volcanically inactive for a loooong time, it's a good bet that the core is now too cool to be restarted. You'd need to place a large moon in close orbit around Mars to do this.
    Easy when you know how!
    Their idea of a miniature magnetosphere at a Lagrange point is interesting, but still difficult to do (and I think it would be a sticking plaster solution).
    I'd say 'not achievable in anybody's lifetime'. Or not achievable at all.
     
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  13. ramonmercado

    ramonmercado CyberPunk

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    Colonizing Mars Might Require Humans to Radically Alter Their Bodies and Minds

    In 2016, two astronauts finished nearly a year of work on the International Space Station. NASA's Scott Kelly and Russia's Mikhail Kornienko were studied closely for changes in their physical and psychological health.

    NASA touts the mission as part of its "Journey to Mars", in which it hopes to send humans to the Red Planet by the 2030s. But a recent paper published in the journalSpace Policy argues that there are so many aspects to a Martian colony that it is all but impossible to simulate the parameters on Earth.

    "We can not simulate the same physical and environmental conditions to reconstruct the Martian environment, I mean such traits like Martian microgravitation or radiation exposure," Konrad Szocik, a cognitive scientist at the University of Information Technology and Management in Rzeszow, Poland and lead author of the paper, said in an e-mail. "Consequently, we cannot predict physical and biological effects of humans living on Mars."

    He argues that "an awareness of the one-way journey and all possible dangers" cannot be simulated on the ISS, or even in Antarctica, one of the most remote places on Earth and a frequently cited zone in space analog studies. Szocik argues that people in Antarctica are not reliant on artificial life support to the degree that astronauts are. ...

    http://www.seeker.com/colonizing-ma..._medium=social&utm_campaign=2016twitterdlvrit
     
  14. Shadowsot

    Shadowsot Devoted Cultist

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    That's true, but you run into problems with radiation, little fresh water, and very little workable atmosphere.
    NASA hasnt given up the ghost yet, though.
     
  15. ramonmercado

    ramonmercado CyberPunk

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    Colonizing Mars will be no easy feat. It will require billions of dollars and years of specialized research led by some of the smartest scientists and engineers in the world. It will demand advanced technologies, yet to be invented — new kinds of spacecraft, for example, advanced rocket propulsion, deep-space life-support systems and high-speed communications.

    But when humans arrive at the Red Planet, their best chances for success and survival will depend on simple materials, low-tech solutions and a broad set of problem-solving skills that will allow people to adapt.

    "Here on the Earth, when we go to a remote location to do an engineering development project, we've learned that taking high-tech equipment isn't really the right approach. What you want is appropriate technology," said planetary scientist Phil Metzger, who is also a co-founder of NASA Kennedy Space Center's Swamp Works. "You want technology to be maintained using the local resources and local labor." [In Images: NASA's Vision of a Mars Base]

    Metzger was speaking at the New Space Age Conference held Saturday (March 11) here at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology's Sloan School. He was part of the panel, "Sustainable Expansion: Reaching Mars and Beyond," which included Jeffrey Hoffman, former NASA astronaut and director of MIT's Man Vehicle lab; Keegan Kirkpatrick, founder and team lead of RedWorks; and Mark Jernigan, associate director of NASA JSC Human Health and Performance Directorate. ...

    http://www.seeker.com/heres-how-colonizing-mars-will-depend-on-low-tech-know-how-2315451639.html
     
  16. eburacum

    eburacum Papo-furado

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  17. rynner2

    rynner2 Great Old One

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    Impact crater linked to Martian tsunamis
    By Paul Rincon Science editor, BBC News website, The Woodlands, Texas

    Scientists have located an impact crater linked to powerful tsunamis that swept across part of ancient Mars.
    The team believe an asteroid triggered 150m-high waves when it plunged into an ocean thought to have existed on northern Mars three billion years ago.
    Lomonosov crater in the planet's northern plains fits the bill as the source of tsunami deposits identified on the surface.
    Details were outlined at the 48th Lunar and Planetary Science Conference.

    Although the idea has lost some of its currency in recent years, some scientists think an ocean might once have filled the vast lowland region that occupies the Red Planet's northerly latitudes.
    Growing evidence that tsunami waves washed over the boundary between the southern highlands and northern lowlands help strengthen the hypothesis.

    François Costard, Steve Clifford and colleagues identified and mapped the distribution of sediment that apparently originated in the northern plains and flowed onto a possible ancient shoreline to the south.
    "We found typical tsunami deposits along the dichotomy between the northern hemisphere and southern hemisphere of Mars," Dr Costard, from Université Paris-Sud and CNRS, told BBC News.
    "It supports that there was, at that time, a northern ocean."

    etc...

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-39394583
     
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  18. Mythopoeika

    Mythopoeika I am a meat popsicle

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    It now seems that Mars once did have an atmosphere comparable to that of Earth:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-39459561

    Rest of article at link.
     
  19. ramonmercado

    ramonmercado CyberPunk

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    Moving in on Mars: Team Envisions Terraformer Transfer Project
    [​IMG] By Leonard David April 20th, 2017
    [​IMG]
    Credit: Michael Carroll via Chris McKay





    A new plan for the “terraformation” of Mars has been scripted by a research team – a blueprint for the red planet to terraform a site on Mars in 2036.

    Called the Lake Matthew Team their Mars Terraformer Transfer (MATT) concept is designed to accelerate Mars exploration, settlement and commercial development.

    [​IMG]
    Mars Terraformer Transfer (MATT) plan makes use of the Shepherd to steer an impactor into Mars.
    Credit: Optonicus Corporation

    City-region development

    “Terraformation need not engineer an entire planetary surface. A city-region is adequate for inhabitation. MATT hits this mark,” explains the group’s website.

    Key to the plan are a Shepherd satellite and a small body shepherded for use as an impactor. That impacting body injects heat into Martian bedrock, producing melt water for a lake that persists for thousands of years within the warmed impact zone.

    On Mars, the “Omaha Crater” bedrock will remain warm to the touch for thousands of years. ...

    http://www.leonarddavid.com/moving-in-on-mars-team-envisions-terraformer-transfer-project/
     
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  20. Naughty_Felid

    Naughty_Felid No longer interesting

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  21. Frasier Buddolph

    Frasier Buddolph CAUTION: May not know what he's talking about.

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    With so many people loudly and continuously decrying the impact humans have had on Earth's environment, is it odd that there's nary a peep about plans to utterly destroy the environment on Mars? Yes, I know that no-one (or nothing) lives on Mars, at least so far as we know, but is that really the point? The Martian environment is just as unique as our own, and to completely obliterate it just because we can seems --ummm-- hubristic?
     
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  22. Shadowsot

    Shadowsot Devoted Cultist

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    I'd have a complaint if there was life there, even the most optimistic astrobiologist is only expecting residual bacteria or simple lifeforms.
    If it came to needing to Terra form Mars, I'd have few issues.
     
  23. Naughty_Felid

    Naughty_Felid No longer interesting

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    Agreed - the color of the place does does my head in for a start and everyone knows the best place to invest in property is beyond the Kuiper Belt people!!!

    Mars is sooooo 2017.
     
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  24. ramonmercado

    ramonmercado CyberPunk

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    Bud on Mars.

    Last spring, Budweiser declared its intention to be the beer of choice for future Martian colonists seeking a cold one in space. The company is due to take one giant step for beerkind on 12 December, when a SpaceX Falcon 9 rocket is scheduled to take Budweiser’s barley seeds from Cape Canaveral in Florida up to the International Space Station.

    The seeds, a small part of a big cargo resupply mission to the ISS, are part of plans by Anheuser-Busch (Budweiser’s parent company) to conduct two new experiments aboard the space station in order to examine how its barley seeds will behave in a microgravity environment as well as whether those seeds could actually germinate in space. The month-long experiments, run in partnership with the non-profit Center for the Advancement of Science in Space, are the first part of Anheuser-Busch’s overall efforts to better understand what extraterrestrial environments do to the ingredients needed to brew beer.

    What will brewing look like in space? Martian gravity, which is one-third as strong as Earth’s, will do a number on the process as well as the ingredients necessary to the brewing – water, rice, barley, yeast and hops. The new pair of experiments is a good start to understanding how space will affect barley. NASA is already well on its way in investigating the effects of weightlessness on yeast growth. Yeast can only survive a very narrow temperature range, but assuming that issue can be taken care of, microgravity so far doesn’t seem to pose much of a problem for yeast (no real surprise there, given how small the single-cell microorganisms are).

    https://www.newscientist.com/articl...mportant-than-you-think/?utm_campaign=Echobox
     
  25. Coal

    Coal Gentleman, scholar, acrobat.

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    Beltalowda beratna!
     

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