JFK - Kennedy Assassination Etc.

Discussion in 'Conspiracy - General' started by Anonymous, Mar 27, 2002.

Who killed JFK?

  1. Lee Harvey Oswald

    10 vote(s)
    34.5%
  2. Mafia

    1 vote(s)
    3.4%
  3. CIA/FBI

    8 vote(s)
    27.6%
  4. Cubans

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  5. KGB

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  6. The Illuminati/Masons/Lizards

    2 vote(s)
    6.9%
  7. all of the above

    8 vote(s)
    27.6%
  1. gerhard1

    gerhard1 Great Old One

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    This is one of the craziest things. Some of them are silly, but some of them aree outright uncanny.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lincoln–Kennedy_coincidences_urban_legend

    Here is one that I noticed, but that has not reported that much if at at all.
    Both accused assassins were killed before trial, both with single pistol shot from a Colt revolver.
     
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  2. Yithian

    Yithian Cloud-Sculptor of Coral D Staff Member

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    What Does the Zapruder Film Really Tell Us?
    Documentary filmmaker Errol Morris deconstructs the most famous 26 seconds in film history

    By Ron Rosenbaum
    SMITHSONIAN MAGAZINE | SUBSCRIBE OCTOBER 2013

    It’s been called the most important 26 seconds of film in history: The 486 frames of 8-millimeter Bell + Howell home movie footage shot in the midday sun of Dallas on November 22, 1963, by a dressmaker named Abraham Zapruder. Twenty-six seconds that included a historic, horrific, all-too-clear vision of a presidential assassination.

    Most people vaguely know about the Zapruder film, but it will soon become omnipresent as the 50th anniversary of the assassination of John F. Kennedy approaches. What is not well known, however, is that a single frame of it was kept largely secret from public view for 12 years after the assassination.

    Frame 313. The frame that gave Abraham Zapruder nightmares, the frame he insisted be withheld from the public—a single frame of film that can be said to have changed American history and culture.

    “We like to feel that the world is safe,” Errol Morris tells me. “Safe at least in the sense that we can know about it. The Kennedy assassination is very much an essay on the unsafety of the world. If a man that powerful, that young, that rich, that successful, can just be wiped off the face of the earth in an instant, what does it say about the rest of us?”

    That instant is one we can all now watch on YouTube. In fact, there is a YouTube compilation that includes no fewer than five versions of the Zapruder film—slow-motion, zoomed-in, close-ups. Once you’ve seen the unspeakable act it captures, Morris says, your sense of stability and safety, your sense of the rationality of the world, has been forever lost. It’s “endlessly haunting and disturbing,” he says.

    I wanted to talk to Morris about the Zapruder film because as a documentary filmmaker he’s focused on mysteries (he freed an innocent man from death row with The Thin Blue Line); he’s re-examined secret history (he won an Oscar for cross-examining the enigmatic Robert McNamara in The Fog of War). As a writer, he’s questioned the way that photographic images can document the nature of truth (in his recent book Believing Is Seeing).


    Continued here:
    http://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/what-does-the-zapruder-film-really-tell-us-14194/?all
     
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  3. hunck

    hunck Justified and Ancient

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    I don't think anything has been deconstructed in this article. Maybe I've missed something but there's nothing new in it as far as I can see.

    According to one comment, the missing frame 313 he claims was withheld for 12 years, was actually published in Life magazine who bought the Zapruder film, less than a year after the assassination.
     
  4. Yithian

    Yithian Cloud-Sculptor of Coral D Staff Member

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    He doesn't deconstruct the film so much as its cultural and psychological impact, but you're mostly right: it's an overview.
     
  5. Yithian

    Yithian Cloud-Sculptor of Coral D Staff Member

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    Last edited: Jul 19, 2017 at 2:44 PM
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  6. sunsplash

    sunsplash Phantom

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  7. Yithian

    Yithian Cloud-Sculptor of Coral D Staff Member

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    Another meta-analysis of Zapruder, his film and its fate.

    The Other Shooter: The Saddest and Most Expensive 26 Seconds of Amateur Film Ever Made
    Nov 23 2012, 9:00am

    For many of us, especially those who weren’t alive when it happened, we’re all watching that event through Zapruder’s lens.

    Because the President's limousine passed almost exactly in front of Dallas clothing manufacturer Abraham Zapruder on Nov. 22, 1963, just as he was playing with his new film camera, and precisely at the moment that Lee Harvey Oswald fired his rifle from a nearby books depository, his silent, 26.6-second home movie has become the focal point of America's collective memory on that weird day. For many of us, especially those who weren't alive when it happened, we're all watching that event through Zapruder's lens.

    Other footage from the scene turns up here and there, becomes fodder for documentaries (like this new one disproving the "second shooter" theory). But Zapruder's film is still the canonical ur text of John F. Kennedy's assassination, the most complete and most chilling visual record. In many ways, it prefigured all sorts of American pastimes, from widespread paranoia about government to a loss of faith in photographic truth and the news media, from the acceptance of graphic violence to newer concerns about copyright. The author Don DeLillo once said that the little film "could probably fuel college courses in a dozen subjects from history to physics." Without the 486 frames of Kodachrome II 8mm safety film, our understanding of JFK's assassination would likely be an even greater carnival of conspiracy theories than it already is. Well, maybe.


    CONTINUED:
    https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/...xpensive-26-seconds-of-amateur-film-ever-made
     
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  8. Swifty

    Swifty Justified and Ancient

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    None Zapruder footage from that day ..

     
  9. Kingsize Wombat

    Kingsize Wombat Phantom

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    And still they come out of the shadows...



    Source: http://www.salon.com/2017/07/15/the-man-who-wanted-to-kill-jfk/




     
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  10. genex17

    genex17 Yeti

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  11. genex17

    genex17 Yeti

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    Here is the studio log tape of that day as presented by KLIF radio, 1190 kHz in Dallas complete with commercials, the hit songs and the developing story.

    Sorry, this link is messing up big time. I can't get it at the 0 mark.

    Please look for it on YouTube "KLIF Kennedy" for the 3 hour tape.

    It's a good listen. If anyone has no problem linking the video here, give it a try.

    Gene
     
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2017 at 8:04 AM
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  12. Kingsize Wombat

    Kingsize Wombat Phantom

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    Yes - but...the Oswald's were introduced to Paine by George de Mohrenschildt - a CIA handler and good buddy of GHW Bush.

    And the Texas School Book Depository was not some sort of government building, but a private company. And that was owned by DH Byrd, one of the founders of the Civil Air Patrol - which both Oswald and David Ferrie belonged to. He was also a good friend of LBJ's.
     
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  13. genex17

    genex17 Yeti

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    Only thing they had in common was a Russian speaking community. Mohrenschildt left for Haiti in June 1963 and never saw LHO again.

    Those connections had nothing to do with Mr. Truly's independent decision to hire Oswald and place him at the TSBD next to the freeway.

    Also no one had any idea that the President's motorcade would be going by the TSBD until Nov 19th at the least, when it was printed in the newspapers. And the Secret Service made the decision at the airport to remove the bubble top off the car that day:

    Jim Lehrer was at Love Field assigned to cover the president's arrival for the Dallas Times Herald. He remembers seeing the bubble top on the presidential limousine.

    "I asked the agent, a man I knew, who was the agent in charge of the Dallas office of the Secret Service," he said, "'You gonna leave the bubble top up?' I'll never forget it, Bob, he looked up at the sky and [said], 'It's clear.' So then he turns to the other agents who were all there by the car ... and he said, 'Lose the bubble top.'"
     
  14. Kingsize Wombat

    Kingsize Wombat Phantom

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    Well, that's one person's opinion. Many others disagree.

    No one? Not even the people who planned the motorcade? Obviously someone knew - that's the whole point of a conspiracy theory.

    I'm not sure why you are bringing this up, but you seem to assume that JFK would not have been killed if the bubble top had been in place. And that is a fairly big assumption as the bubble top was most definitely not bullet proof. Jim Lehrer will tell you exactly that:

    Source: http://www.thedailybeast.com/would-it-have-saved-jfk-jim-lehrer-on-the-mystery-of-the-bubble-top

    What about de Mohrenschildt and Haiti then? There was no real need for him to be in Dallas that day - his part was already done.

    And what happened to him later?

    Source for both the above: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_de_Mohrenschildt

    So - on the same day, he gives an interview about the JFK assassination, is contacted by the the House Select Committee on Assassinations, and then decides to blow his brains out.

    Pure coincidence, I'm sure. Nothing to see here folks, move right along.
     
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  15. genex17

    genex17 Yeti

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    If he was guilty in the setup, it's strange that he would give an interview to anyone.
    Correlation is not causation. No one knew why he went for suicide. He testified before the Warren Commission as well.

    If LHO was part of any conspiracy, I wonder why his co-conspirators never arranged for his getaway or disposal so he would not have a chance to say anything to the police. He left the scene on his own, killed a police officer in the process before being apprehended in a theater. Not what I would call a tight plan if he had any help.
     
  16. Kingsize Wombat

    Kingsize Wombat Phantom

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    He may not have known that he was helping to kill JFK - but you are right, we will never know for sure. There are of course those too who claim it wasn't suicide, but again that's speculation.

    My theory is that LHO wasn't meant to survive that day - but again we will never be sure. The killing of Tippit always struck me as odd and unnecessary. LHO could have just stayed at home - unless he wanted to be caught in a public space such as a cinema so that there would be witnesses and they couldn't just shoot him in the back "trying to escape"?

    LHO wanted a lawyer - and he wanted to talk. Why were no notes kept of LHO's interrogations?
     
  17. genex17

    genex17 Yeti

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    I agree, that part about Tippet was strange. He also brought a gun to the theater, which was wrestled from him when he tried to reach for it.

    I'm not sure why no notes or recordings were taken or any stenographers called up during his 11 hour interrogation in police custody. Maybe there were, but I'm not sure.

    It is interesting that he asked for a Communist Party USA lawyer, a Mr. Abt, but was unable to get him.

    http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/defense.txt

    He denied killing Kennedy or Tippet, and the "patsy" part of his denial referred to his time in the Soviet Union as the reason for his arrest.

    I guess like some assassins, he banked on some sort of notoriety (much like Mark David Chapman), but the realization of what he just did caused him to go into denial.

    If some well heeled shadow government wanted a hit man, they picked a strange one.
     
  18. Kingsize Wombat

    Kingsize Wombat Phantom

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    Notes were taken - and destroyed:
    http://www.jfklancer.com/pdf/haappanen-notes.pdf

    Gaining notoriety doesn't fly with me - why deny it then? That doesn't make sense.

    And that is the whole idea. The word "patsy" comes from the Italian "pazzo" - crazy, or fool. Back in the day, the mafia got the village idiot to do their dirty work for them.
     
  19. genex17

    genex17 Yeti

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    I found an article summarizing the many assassinations and attempts in US history.

    https://www.nytimes.com/roomfordeba...y/the-facts-about-political-assassins?mcubz=0

    "Foreigners view the United States as a nation prone to political violence. Nine presidents have been the targets of assassination, along with one president-elect and three presidential candidates. In addition, some eight governors, seven U.S. Senators, 10 Representatives, 11 mayors and 17 state legislators have been violently attacked. No other Western country with a population over 50 million has as high a number."

    Only 2 were organized, the rest:

    "In general, presidential assailants have been outsiders, unusually sensitive to the political cults or sensations of the time. Few have had steady employment. Only one was married with children. Most were immigrants or children of immigrants. Few carefully planned their assault.

    A majority had ideological motives for their crimes but suffered from a paranoid style of thinking and chose their victim almost at random. In only two cases was the assassin a member of an organized conspiracy: in 1865 and in 1950."

    That's why I believe LHO acted alone. The historical record points to it.

    "Patsy"? Very outside chance. They would want the him dead and would arrange his getaway, either over the ground or under it before the police caught up to him.

    As you said: Gaining notoriety doesn't fly with me - why deny it then? That doesn't make sense.

    It doesn't to me, either.

    The delusion of doing something big, like gaining fame over killing someone famous evaporates once the deed is done,and they see the hangman's noose in their future. It was Mark David Chapman's motive for killing John Lennon.
    LHO likely had that "buyer's remorse" and quickly denied it when it became all too real.
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2017 at 4:07 AM
  20. Kingsize Wombat

    Kingsize Wombat Phantom

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    That is your personal opinion - but you zero evidence to back that up. There is simply not a single thing that points in that direction.

    Well - yes - and that's what happened, didn't it?
     

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