Evidence Proving The Validity of Astrology

Discussion in 'Religions & Cults' started by AlienView, Aug 13, 2017 at 12:38 PM.

  1. AlienView

    AlienView "Stargate Explorer"

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    And.........................What is it?

    Just what is the evidence that the motion and position of the planets and stars will influence your life?

    I'll believe in most anything until proven to have no validity. Atheism, Theism, Deism, Eastern and Western
    mysticism and religion, UFOS, Aliens, the paranormal, etc., etc.

    All these things fascinate me - And there is 'some' evidence, be it often weak and circumstantial, that makes these esoteric subjects interesting.

    Now what I'm asking is what is the evidence, it there is any, that the planets, stars, and their motion influences peoples lives.

    Very popular on radio talk shows, astrologers get on the air and start predicting history as well as
    futures for various individuals who call in.

    Again, is there any evidence whatsoever to back up these soothsayers?
    Has any scientific studies, like in the Rhine experiments for telepathy, give credence to Astrology?
     
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  2. Coal

    Coal Sure, we're all wrong. Makes complete sense.

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    I've got a book somewhere on this, but it's probably in the loft as I can't see it in the East Wing library of Coal Towers.

    The issues are simple enough. You need a big wodge of data on people and their career and personal trajectories and birth-dates and then you need to compensate for all the confounding factors like: human breeding season (we have one), the effect of children's birth age in relation to their 'year' in education, number and gender of siblings, what their parents did, parents age at birth and their socio-economic status. All of which might effect birth dates and life trajectories...when you've compensated for all that stuff that you might find a correlation with the odd constellation or planet I guess.
     
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  3. AlienView

    AlienView "Stargate Explorer"

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    Well I did some quick research - And came up with this:

    Astrology and science
    From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    "
    Astrology consists of a number of belief systems that hold that there is a relationship between astronomical phenomena and events or descriptions of personality in the human world. Astrology has been rejected by the scientific community as having no explanatory power for describing the universe. Scientific testing of astrology has been conducted, and no evidence has been found to support the premises or purported effects outlined in astrological traditions.[1]

    Where astrology has made falsifiable predictions, it has been falsified.[1]:424 The most famous test was headed by Shawn Carlson and included a committee of scientists and a committee of astrologers. It led to the conclusion that natal astrology performed no better than chance. Astrologer and psychologist Michel Gauquelin claimed to have found statistical support for "the Mars effect" in the birth dates of athletes, but it could not be replicated in further studies. The organisers of later studies claimed that Gauquelin had tried to influence their inclusion criteria for the study by suggesting specific individuals be removed. It has also been suggested, by Geoffrey Dean, that the reporting of birth times by parents (before the 1950s) may have caused the apparent effect.

    Astrology has not demonstrated its effectiveness in controlled studies and has no scientific validity,[1][2]:85 and as such, is regarded as pseudoscience.[3][4]:1350There is no proposed mechanism of action by which the positions and motions of stars and planets could affect people and events on Earth in the way astrologers say they do that does not contradict well-understood, basic aspects of biology and physics............."

    See whole article here:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astrology_and_science


    OK - I still have an open mind - Anyone out here believe in Astrology? - Tell me why - I like to have things to believe in.
     
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  4. Ermintruder

    Ermintruder Existential pixelfixer

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    I may (accidentally) have a classic personal opportunity to test the validity of astrology.

    Despite being instinctively a doubter regarding astrology (as I am about most things), I was given a personalised professional (well, costly) chart, based upon my place/date/time of birth, by a good friend. This detailed document (filled with general and specific predictions and pronouncements) was produced in London about 25yrs ago, whereupon I lost it.

    However....it's recently resurfaced, at home. In it's original once-opened honest brown envelope. By which I mean it's a lot less lost that it was, I should be able to find it within an hour's searching.

    So I have the tantalising opportunity....to retrospectively-compare the actuality of my quarter-century's life experiences, with the sealed, ready-cast predictions of 1992.

    Will I do this? I really should. If I do, and I find it genuinely has predicted the sequential reality of my lifeline, I will be afraid/shocked and surprised.

    I'm in the unlucky/lucky position of having had a number of undeniably-distinct step-changes of career and life direction. It will be interesting to see whether my "chart" even comes close to predestinating these rocks & ripples.

    I can't do this match-and-compare exercise right now, due to the best and worst of offline reasons...but I will do it, soon. Objectively and honestly.

    And in so doing, it will either support the proposition within the title of this thread...or not.
     
  5. Krepostnoi

    Krepostnoi Размышляю над бессмертием краба

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    I was once assured, in all seriousness, that "only Virgos believe in Astrology".

    I do not find it beyond the realms of possibility that such environmental factors as the amount of daylight, the seasonally-available food, the ambient temperature etc. surrounding the expectant mother might have an effect on the child she is carrying. Of course, these factors would vary in fairly predictable ways as the circle of the year turns*.It may then be possible to make predictions with better success than mere chance about the personality tendencies of people born at whichever time. (As m'learned friend @Coal points out, though, how you'd actually go about proving this is an exercise I leave for the reader.)

    ETA All that is just tentative hypothesis about how astrology might be able to predict character traits. What I cannot do is then make the leap to positing any mechanism whatsoever as to how astrology can make predictions about the immediate future</edit>.

    There's not so much Boffo (as defined by the great T Pratchett) in that, though, so why not dress it up in terms of the highly predictable procession of the stars above us. Correlation is not causation, as any fule kno, but it might increase the likelihood of silver crossing your palm.

    * Mind you, in these times of cheap flights and the year-round availability of strawberries, or at any rate strawberry-shaped objects, I'm not sure how much weight such factors still carry.
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2017 at 3:08 PM
  6. Krepostnoi

    Krepostnoi Размышляю над бессмертием краба

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    That is a tremendous opportunity - it could scarcely have been scripted better, right down to the arbitrarily significant time period that has passed - and I look forward enormously to reading your account.
     
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  7. Andy_X

    Andy_X Portent

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    The problem is that even if the predictions prove remarkably and consistently accurate this one result will not vindicate astrology. It would be an interesting exercise but if you're worried it might disturb you then, as you say, giving the matter serious thought is the right thing to do for now.

    A psychologist might suggest that, especially as you were serious enough to pay top dollar to get the job done properly, your misplacing of this valuable document might not be quite as accidental as your conscious mind may imagine...

    I hope you will have a look when you're good and ready though!
     
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  8. Ermintruder

    Ermintruder Existential pixelfixer

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    No, it was definitely bought for me, really as something of a challenge (even back then) by a very-close friend. I'm an uneasy, unwilling skeptic...an ultra-realist, but one who always remains open to possibility.

    So we shall see if it is an unlit firework....will it be a skyrocket, or a squib: sound and fury, signifying nothing, or be truly illuminating?
     
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  9. Mythopoeika

    Mythopoeika I am a meat popsicle

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  10. Rootbeer Milk Coffee Mix

    Rootbeer Milk Coffee Mix Phantom

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    I can prove astrology. Just give me a bit of time. within an hour i will do that.
    Strange as I closed my eyes to sleep, I had the feeling I should do this tomorrow, and then I saw this post, another 'psychic' phenomena for you guys. But it must be because mine and alien's 'energy' is connected.
     
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  11. Yithian

    Yithian Cloud-Sculptor of Coral D Staff Member

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    This should be interesting.
    We await the rabbit from the hat.
     
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  12. Mythopoeika

    Mythopoeika I am a meat popsicle

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  13. jimv1

    jimv1 Analogue Boy

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    Maybe a key area of study could be the life path of separated twins. I'm sure there have been a few Fortean reports of twins marrying the same sort of person, having the same number of kids etc.

    http://firsttoknow.com/jim-twins/
     
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  14. Rootbeer Milk Coffee Mix

    Rootbeer Milk Coffee Mix Phantom

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    Chart 1 of 4 is Francois Mitterand's chart. Notice the symmetrical shape. Starting from the moon (middle of the 3 close lines). Next is Kanye West. Symmetrical shape. There must be some kind of notifier in his chart, to become so world-renowned. Here it is
    Screen Shot 2017-08-13 at 8.15.45 AM.png Screen Shot 2017-08-13 at 8.15.13 AM.png



    This next one 3/4 is Napoleon the 1. Another pretty symmetrical shape, and the final one is Ghengis Khan. You can verify all of these yourselves. The one thing that you have to know is that Pluto is not a part of the 'main' chart shape. If we included all that major asteroids, there would be no 'apparent' chart shape in a lot of more charts. But you take what is truly important, the main major planets which the weakest of which- neptune (for it's far distance) is still 7000x more massive than Pluto.
    Screen Shot 2017-08-13 at 8.14.53 AM.png Screen Shot 2017-08-13 at 8.14.25 AM.png

    And if you get the desire to laugh and say this isn't proof, I have a lot more. Which I may not show.
     
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  15. Yithian

    Yithian Cloud-Sculptor of Coral D Staff Member

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    I don't think this is 'proof', but I am reasonably impressed--and it is interesting.
     
  16. Rootbeer Milk Coffee Mix

    Rootbeer Milk Coffee Mix Phantom

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    It's kind of a dumb way to understand astrology ( referring to what I have presented) but if you find more and more suggesting these planets actually do affect us, which I do have proof of that as well, then just from this lame understanding it can show how vastly interconnected all of reality really is. Just from looking at these lame lines.

    'Course, I already believed it was before
     
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  17. Coal

    Coal Sure, we're all wrong. Makes complete sense.

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    Wow, I'm learned. *looks a bit pleased* :yay:
    Sample size of 'one' has no statistical validity*...as ever. But I'm very interested in the contents of said envelope.

    * Which is why I think qualitative research on one or two people is generally bunk
    :yeahthat:
     
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  18. Andy_X

    Andy_X Portent

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    Right, sorry. Perhaps I misread you!

    Looking forward to the results...
     
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  19. jimv1

    jimv1 Analogue Boy

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    I don't know about charts. What are we looking at here? For every Napolean, wouldn't there be similar charts for people born around that time who had less impressive futures?
     
  20. Rootbeer Milk Coffee Mix

    Rootbeer Milk Coffee Mix Phantom

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    ^A chart is the position of the planets at the minutes of your birth. The moon takes 1 day to move 13 degrees, so just 1 day after Kanye was born, it would have moved. Another factor is the horizon, which its position is very important. For napoleon, I'm glad you picked that, is that his horizon is exactly level to the planets. Someone with their horizon tilted 50 degrees over, would not have the same destiny.

    Something else to note is that people only become 'great' after a very odd circumstance, for Alexander the great he fought off a snake as a baby. Kanye only got famous after he almost died in a car crash, before that, no one knew about him. They go through strange things, that give them something different than everyone else. So there are many 'famous' type charts. But not everyone will become famous.
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2017 at 6:00 PM
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