Conspiracy in the U.S Election & Trump's Presidency

Discussion in 'Conspiracy - general' started by Tribble, Nov 11, 2016.

  1. Ibis

    Ibis Life is like a box of paints.

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    Some people just like mayhem and they don't have to get paid. It's cathartic for them or something, and they get a high from the chaos and destruction. They may be on either end of the political spectrum. I used to work with a guy who was later seen interviewed on the news by a mutual acquaintance, who reported that he'd participated in protests against the WTO in Seattle in 1999 or 2000. This protest was marked by the smashing of windows at Starbucks. While working with this guy, I got the hear his stories about how he gleefully stole things from vending machines, etc. Other co-workers who knew him better began to find him repugnant, as he seemed to have no misgivings about hurting others if he could have fun wreaking havoc. He did crazy things for the fun of it, and he didn't express deep political thought to justify it. He seemed more driven by a need to embarrass his father.

    But there are cases of undercover agents who have deliberately discredited groups by precipitating violence in the name of those groups; however, my faint knowledge of such cases is limited to what I recall about groups in the 60s. I've never researched that so don't want to venture any theories. Please (sorry if this sounds patronizing) always double check your sources, and then check their sources as well. At this point, we all need to be especially careful about the information we believe in and act on. And make room in your understanding of events for the role that petty human nature and petty human egos can play. Not everything is a conspiracy, and when it is, the conspiracy can go wrong. Control freaks aren't necessarily adept at managing.

    In my experience, the vast majority of people who protest are not there to create problems, and often abhor violence. It doesn't take many people to disrupt a peaceful event, it just takes a few hooligans with the will for chaos.

    And thank you to RamonMercado for posting the letter from Sens. Feinstein and Grassley. I'd like to request a link to the site it's from. (Don't worry, I'm not saying it's fake! I see it referenced many places.)

    I haven't actually read any of this thread except the last half of this page, so please excuse any redundancies in my post -- and please excuse the length! I'm really tired, but had to respond, even without seeing all the posts. All of this, everything happening, seems to urgently require sharing thoughts and civil gestures.
     
  2. ramonmercado

    ramonmercado CyberPunk

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  3. kamalktk

    kamalktk Justified and Ancient

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    The "any protesters are paid protesters" thing has been a Republican line for awhile now. Here's the head of the House Oversight Committee (too busy going after anyone tied to Clinton to look at Flynn, who they announced they will not investigate) using it for protests at his town hall meetings. https://thinkprogress.org/chaffetz-paid-protesters-town-hall-9f97e1f16d62#.r2raa8mtt

    It's being used to not face their constituents.
    https://news.vice.com/story/more-th...kipping-february-town-halls-with-constituents

    You'd think with masses of people being paid (presumably via some organization) there would be some evidence of it, but there's not of course.
     
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  4. INT21

    INT21 Great Old One

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    Remember this guy ?

    ...In July 1987, North was summoned to testify before televised hearings of a joint congressional committee that was formed to investigate the Iran–Contra scandal. During the hearings, North admitted that he had lied to Congress previously, for which and other actions he was later charged. He defended his actions by stating that he believed in the goal of aiding the Contras, whom he saw as freedom fighters against the Sandinistas and said that he viewed the Iran–Contra scheme as a "neat idea."[27] North admitted shredding government documents related to these activities, at William Casey's suggestion, when the Iran–Contra scandal became public. He also testified that Robert McFarlane had asked him to alter official records to delete references to direct assistance to the Contras and that he had helped....



    INT21
     
  5. ramonmercado

    ramonmercado CyberPunk

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    Senators Silent After Meeting With FBI Director Comey
    Friday afternoon meeting came after votes finished for recess

    Posted Feb 17, 2017 5:10 PM Niels Lesniewski

    Not much can get between senators and a recess. Except, perhaps, FBI Director James B. Comey.

    Members of the Senate Intelligence Committee, along with ex-officio member and Minority Leader Charles E. Schumer, huddled for a total of more than two hours on Friday with Comey.

    The FBI director’s visit was not announced publicly, and it’s possible members of the Capitol Hill press corps only found out because he was spotted in the hallways and entered a secure room used for intelligence briefings.

    But leaving that secure room in the Capitol Visitor Center, senators declined to even confirm the presence of the FBI director, much less the substance of the meeting. Those who did talk generally only gave “no comments” or referred questions to Intelligence Chairman Richard M. Burr and ranking member Mark Warner. ...

    http://www.rollcall.com/news/politics/senators-silent-meeting-fbi-director-comey
     
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  6. ramonmercado

    ramonmercado CyberPunk

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    White House dismisses NSC aide after harsh criticism of Trump
    Official complained about the president at a closed-door think tank gathering.

    By ELIANA JOHNSON 02/18/17 02:21 PM EST

    The White House abruptly dismissed a senior National Security Council aide on Friday after receiving reports that he had publicly laced into the president and his senior aides, including son-in-law Jared Kushner and daughter Ivanka Trump at an event hosted by a Washington think tank.

    The aide, Craig Deare, was serving as the NSC's senior director for Western Hemisphere Affairs. Earlier in the week, at a private, off-the-record roundtable hosted by the Woodrow Wilson Center for a group of about two dozen scholars, Deare harshly criticized the president and his chief strategist Steve Bannon and railed against the dysfunction paralyzing the Trump White House, according to a source familiar with the situation. ...

    He complained in particular that senior national security aides do not have access to the president -- and gave a detailed and embarrassing readout of Trump's call with Mexican president Enrique Pena Nieto.

    http://www.politico.com/story/2017/02/white-house-nsc-aide-craig-deare-dismissed-235175
     
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  7. ramonmercado

    ramonmercado CyberPunk

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    McCain On Explosive Trump Dossier: 'The Russians Do Use Women And Sex'
    By MATT SHUHAM Published FEBRUARY 18, 2017, 2:47 PM EDT

    Sen. John McCain (R-AZ) said in an interview published Saturday that he takes Russian meddling in the 2016 election “more seriously than a physical attack.”

    He also said that he "didn’t know what to make" of an explosive, and still largely unsubstantiated, dossier which alleged the Russian government had compromising information on President Donald Trump.

    In a cover story for New York magazine published online Saturday, McCain projected a hawkish stance on Russia and said Russian interference in the American election had risked undermining “the foundation of democracy.”

    McCain, in December of last year, was part of a bipartisan group of senators who requested the formation of a select committee to investigate Russian interference in the election. ...

    http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/new-york-magazine-profile-john-mccain


    Read New York’s full profile here.
    http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2017/02/john-mccain-takes-on-donald-trump.html?mid=nymag_press
     
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  8. Ibis

    Ibis Life is like a box of paints.

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  9. Ibis

    Ibis Life is like a box of paints.

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    Geez, everybody uses women and sex. Just ask any advertising agency!
     
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  10. sherbetbizarre

    sherbetbizarre Special Branch

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  11. gattino

    gattino Justified and Ancient

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    Conspiracies et al aside something struck me today about Trump's odd behaviour. In particular the increasingly made observation that he gets his concept of objective reality from whatever is on his favourite cable channels, without any filter or fact checking.

    Apart from any supposed personality disorders like narcissism or the likelihood of him having just blagged his way into the job and now shitting himself, I suspect there's something else going on with Donald Trump. Confusing what he saw on tv before sleep with objective reality, embarrassed aggression and denial or general imperviousness to factual correction, seeming mood swings, garbled incoherent speech using incomplete sentences which go off on tangents....all of this describes my own mother in the early years of her dementia.

    I'm no doctor and maybe he's talked that way since he was 12. But he is 70 and I'd be willing to lay a very small bet Mr T will sooner or later start having heart stopping lapses in memory live on camera.
     
  12. gattino

    gattino Justified and Ancient

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    Having come to the above conclusion/suspicion it occurred to me that if I'm right I can't be the only one to have concluded it! So I've just googled and there have indeed been a number of online articles in teh last two years speculating that he's showing signs of dementia (or in one article, syphillis!), but of course its impossible to disentangle sincere behavioral observation from partisan name calling..none of the articles are written by his political friends.

    However two interesting things do come out of them. One is that his own father apparently had alzheimers. The second is this video clip of him talking politics in the 80s. His policies and ideas are essentially the same...but his sentence forming is dramatically different. He talks in long, full, thought out sentences with lucid and easy to comprehend content. Today the same thoughts are expressed in sentences which are short, repetitive, devoid of proper sentence structure, and which veer constantly off topic. Spot the difference.

     
  13. Yithian

    Yithian Keeping The British End Up Staff Member

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    If you ask me, that's just the difference between a young man and an old man talking.

    Some of it is probably also owing to the fact that Trump has been able to rest on his reputation and brand name for a number of years now and has only needed to repeat the same old words and phrases. If you don't use it, you lose it -- and if luck or genetics are against you, even that won't help.

    Some people maintain a fearsome lucidity in advanced years. I recall being taken aback by a professor in his 80s who spoke faster and expressed himself far more precisely than I could (a fast speaker and fairly literate); he could also think everybody else in the room under the table, but such people are the exception and Trump hasn't needed the wits with which he made his original living for years.
     
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  14. gattino

    gattino Justified and Ancient

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    I thought he made his "original living" from inheritance rather than wits?

    Even if I were his personal physician I'd not be able to officially diagnose dementia, so it would be silly for me to stand my ground..I clearly don't know that it is a fact in a medically diagnosable way, but the evidence of his greater lucidity of expression in the past is offered only as potential corroboration. Point being that he didn't always talk the way he does now, so his disjointed and incoherent sentences aren't just "typical old him".

    My suspicions are shaped by sheer recognition of the patterns that form between his interactions with the world and my mum's. Its very very familiar. Long before dementia became evident there were behaviours which only took on significance in retrospect. A nightly paranoia and delusions about "them" (non existant people outside the house keeping her awake each night) whilst seeming otherwise sane and lucid. Increasingly garbled hard to follow conversation where her point trailed off and had to be guessed at. Only the shortest sentences being fully coherent..and frequently repeated. Rambling changes of topic...an inability to distinguish and accept the distinction between things which may have happened on tv or in her dreams and ordinary daily experiences, even though they were logically inconsistent. An imperviousness to corrections of a delusional "fact". Embarrassment or agitation at being questioned. A loss of inhibition about referencing people's personal flaws or using vulgar language etc etc. Repetition, repetition, repetition...his endless singing his own praises for glorious electoral victory when no one has asked him isn't, it seems to me, mere vanity or self comforting..I think he repeats it so often because he doesn't realise he's repeating it so often!

    And that's the most telling thing of all...his inability to stick on topic, no matter what he's asked isn't like ordinary political evasion or spin. I see it daily at home...the question simply isn't being properly processed, so he ends up answering different questions entirely: he's responding to a version of the conversation he's imagined he's having.

    Time will tell. But as I say I'm pretty confident there will before the year is out be an awkward display at a press conference where he'll appear to not know who he's talking to or reference someone who's dead etc. He'll quickly recover and it'll be put down to an infection.
     
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  15. Mythopoeika

    Mythopoeika I am a meat popsicle

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    I think you're onto something there, Gattino.
    Old footage of Trump consistently shows him expressing himself in a more reasoned, intelligent manner than today.
    He's almost inarticulate today.
    Also, he was substantially more open and (almost) liberal in his thinking.
    It's only a question of time before things begin to crumble.
     
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  16. GNC

    GNC King-Sized Canary

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    Alzheimer's isn't hereditary. I remember the Canadian intellectual Michael Ignatieff worrying decades ago he would fall victim to the disease because so many members of his family had. A quick online search reveals him to be 69 years old and sharp as ever.
     
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  17. Coal

    Coal Gone full 'folk festival'

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    I have a suspicion that it's caused by something in the environment, but it's just a gut feel. I'd like to see those afflicted cross referenced against trades or jobs.
    I agree @gattino is on the right track there.
     
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  18. Mythopoeika

    Mythopoeika I am a meat popsicle

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    I don't know that that would allow any solid conclusions to be drawn.
    Three examples I can think of, from old people I have known:
    Brother-in-law's Mum - owned a newsagent's and was quite well off. She was hot at book-keeping. Never did manual work in her life. Went gaga and paranoid before dying.
    Long-time next-door neighbour of my Mum and Dad. Was a headmistress, with a reasonable IQ. Gone gaga, living happily in a care home. Physically in good condition, not at all paranoid.
    Mum and Dad's neighbour across the road. Going batty and getting paranoid. Not dim, but not an intellectual. Did a variety of factory jobs before becoming a social outreach worker for Heathrow Airport employees who were ill in hospital or in need of help.
    None of them (apart from the last one) can be said to have been exposed to something in the course of their work.
    Maybe the common factor is that they all got really old and perhaps vascular problems set in, attacking the brain.
     
  19. gattino

    gattino Justified and Ancient

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    Though generally true - your parent having it doesn't mean you will get it - its not that clear cut. There is a greater likelihood in some cases and with some types that you or other family members will be at risk of developing it.

    A relatively rare form of Alzheimers is directly inherited, though develops early. More generally it and the other dementias can be said to have an indirect hereditary component...ie from similar lifestyles and dietary/smoking habits between parents and offspring, or you may be a greater risk because of some inherited detail in your genetic makeup which leaves you more open to the condition developing without directly causing the condition itself.

    For example my mum has vascular dementia - its different from alzheimers and is caused by minor strokes and bleeds in the brain. I can't inherit vascular dementia like some kind of contagious disease or birth defect. But clearly we can imagine I may have inherited a greater propensity if I'm not careful to strokes, which in turn could lead to vascular dementia.

    So the relevance of Trump's father having had Alzheimers is not that it makes inevitable Trump himself will get it, but rather shows the risk factors, whether internal or external, have existed in his close family. At any rate he's certainly not immune to it!
     
  20. gattino

    gattino Justified and Ancient

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    Found this..its from a year ago and long before he won the Republican nomination. The presenters are obviously cheerfully interpreting his rambling incoherence as him bluffing his way through questions he'd rather avoid...but I don't think that's what he's doing at all. I think he genuinely can't focus...he goes off topic every time simply because the original question has been forgotten by the time he gets to the end of his first sentence. He's getting lost in his own mind. The question he's asked at 7.35 is a particularly strong and disturbing example...the lack of connection between it and his answer is instant and bewildering.

     

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