Conspiracy In The U.S. Election & Trump's Presidency

Discussion in 'Conspiracy: General' started by Ascalon, Oct 11, 2016.

  1. dr wu

    dr wu Doctor Prog

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    What are your personal thoughts on what the Trump group might be guilty of...if anything ( other than simply being a bunch of money hungry buffoons out of their political depth) ?
     
  2. Yithian

    Yithian Intergalactic Space Crusader Staff Member

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    Not prepared to speculate, but if the latest reports of the attempts to set up a back-channel with secret meeting in the Seychelles can be substantiated--and the motivation turns out to be lucre via contracts, Trump might actually be impeachment-level f**cked. I don't think he's clever enough to have acted with plausible deniability.

    http://digg.com/2018/trump-seychelles-meeting
     
  3. Krepostnoi

    Krepostnoi Bug Bunny

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    Um, the Russian state is evil. Individual lives have never been worth a damn, whether the regime described itself as Tsarist, Communist or post-Soviet. You can be famous - dig your Ouija board out and ask Boris Nemtsov - or unknown; either way, even now, there are plenty of people working in the security organs who will not hesitate to crush you if they think that will further their own selfish interests.

    And the lurid assassinations are a clear message to that effect.
     
  4. Cochise

    Cochise Justified & Ancient

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    I worked there for, a while - didn't strike me as particularly evil. It's not democratic, never has been. But actually it's not so different as one is led to believe. I don't buy in to the paranoia.

    We do away with inconvenient people as well, so do most states. David Kelly for example.
     
  5. Krepostnoi

    Krepostnoi Bug Bunny

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    Me, too.
    In fact, I've made my home in various Russian cities for substantial periods of time in at least three different decades. I have devoted over 30 years of my life to the study of the Russian language, and the country's culture, history and politics. I have 3 degrees in various aspects of Russian Studies. I speak the language fluently. I have relatives there. In short, as the kids say, I've got receipts.
    You have the luxury of choosing not to. Meanwhile, I know people who have lost their careers, their health, and/or the businesses they worked hard to develop. I personally know of one person who was lucky to get away with their life, although they have suffered life-changing injuries. And there are plenty more like them: google reiderstvo. Google any of the recent protests. The chap ranting in this tweet is a Putin supporter. It doesn't stop him being swept up in random arrests. These aren't big name dissidents, just ordinary joes who found themselves on the wrong side of the wrong people. The tone is set at the top, and the people who are flourishing in the organs of state power are not nice individuals. I repeat, the regime as currently instituted is evil.

    Probably so. But this doesn't mean that the Russian regime is not evil, merely that other states also can be.
     
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  6. Cochise

    Cochise Justified & Ancient

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    You may not lose your life in the UK, but you can certainly lose your job or your business by expressing unfashionable views.

    It's the word 'evil' I object to. I'm not trying to pretend that Russia is a perfect place to live, far from it. But it's a darn sight better now than it was say, 60 years ago when people were executed in their tens of thousands.
     
  7. Yithian

    Yithian Intergalactic Space Crusader Staff Member

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    I know several people who work or have worked in the Middle East. Most have enjoyed the experience, but I've turned down opportunities in the region solely because of the political and religious climate. It's a lottery and all the big prizes are prison sentences.

    Evil? I have quite a high threshold for that term, but 'Controlled by fuckheads and corrupt institutions whose jurisdiction I will not willing place myself under? Put Russia on the list.
     
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  8. Kingsize Wombat

    Kingsize Wombat Abominable Snowman

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    Thanks to all who have added their personal experience in Russia - that made for some very interesting reading indeed.
     
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  9. Cochise

    Cochise Justified & Ancient

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    Interesting. I wouldn't work in the Middle East either, for the same reason. Obviously I didn't turn down the Russian opportunity. I made some good friends there and in their opinion the main danger in Russia was falling foul of the illegal operators - the Russian equivalent of the Mafia.
     
  10. Zeke Newbold

    Zeke Newbold Carbon based biped.

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    Er, did someone mention Russia?
    I have lived in different cities of Russia for just over ten years now. I am as British as they come and have no relatives here either. I'm not quite as kneedeep in it as Krepestnoi - I've never studied Russia or Russian as an academic subject, for example - but I feel I've earned the t-shirt.

    Putin is a corportate thug, and I hate the way certain Western right-wingers have taken to idolising him and apologising for him in various ways. That said, as Cochise remarked above, Russian has come a long, long way in recent times. I am rather surprised at Krepestnoi's depressing outburst above. I have never felt endangered here in any way and can't think of that many people who I know who have been. Russia leaves you alone if you leave it alone, is what I find. Moreoever, I feel justified in continuing to think of the big old place as an `emerging democracy`. Yes, this may be a case of one step forwrd, two steps back a lot of the time, but there are green shoots in evidence if you care to look for them.

    We tend to forget that, in living memory of many posters here, Spain - sunny Spain - used to be under a dictatorship.

    As for whether is is ethical to continue to work here or not....well, we all have our own lines in the sand, I suppose. I am not making great money here and largely stay out of personal interest. As an experienced and well -qualified teacher of English I have been told that I could be making life changingly big money in the Middle East (by, for example, former colleagues who are now over there) but I refuse to budge.This is largely because I couldn't work for a regime which has public executions (I've heard stories of teachers being invited to pic-n ics in which the chief entertainment consisted of public beheadings) and where men and women are strictly separated. Neither of those things apply to Russia, whatever else you might say.

    I do not openly oppose the regime, and often wish that I could feel as though I could, however, in its own small way my job does involve building bridges between the East and West - and Putin's brand of Nationalistic-Conservatism relies on a feeling of Us vs Them to survive, which I, and those like me, are chipping away at.
     
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  11. Cochise

    Cochise Justified & Ancient

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    Thanks Zeke, that is very much how I feel about my time in Russia but I failed to express it well. I'm no Putin fan but I don't think Russia is a threat to us - or at least there are more urgent threats.

    There were worse things that could have happened - for example the whole country could have descended into anarchy which is not what you want occurring in a nuclear power. Some people I spoke to were very concerned that had been a real possibility and they supported Putin (with qualifications) for that reason.

    Since I still had some travel to the US going on at the same time the combination of visas in my passport led to some interesting discussions with immigration in both Russia and the US :)
     
  12. ramonmercado

    ramonmercado CyberPunk

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  13. Vardoger

    Vardoger Bring the Beat Back!!

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  14. Analis

    Analis Justified & Ancient

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    I agree, Russia under Putin is described as a hellish land, but it is not really that different from our countries.
    In fact, what the evolution of the situation in Russia calls to my mind is that its government is becoming more and more like in France... I had mentioned a number of supsicious deaths in France, it was only a sample, and more and more often, protesters are arrested arbitrarily, violence and even murders by the police are more and more common, in a complete impunity. If the domestic situation in Russia is not good, but not really worse than in a number of European countries or the USA, to the difference of them, it is not a threat to the rest of the world. As for their 'interference' in the US elections, until now, the accusations remain as groundless as before (I won't have my mind changer by the laughable controversy on the farcical ads on Facebook or Twitter, a small drop in the ocean of US campaigns expenses). The speculations on Sergei Skrippal are until now nothing more than a poorly-evidenced conspiracy theory.
    And speaking of a country with a true tradition of interfering in foreign elections :
    https://www.strategic-culture.org/n...reign-elections-cia-tradition-since-1948.html
    Wayne MADSEN | 04.03.2018 | FEATURED STORY
    US Meddling in Foreign Elections: A CIA Tradition Since 1948
    In a shocking display of relative independence from the post-Operation Mockingbird control of the media by the Central Intelligence Agency, a recent article in The New York Times broke with current conventional pack journalism and covered the long history of CIA meddling in foreign elections. A February 17, 2018, article, titled, "Russia Isn’t the Only One Meddling in Elections. We Do It, Too," authored by Scott Shane – who covered the perestroika and glasnost for The Baltimore Sun in Moscow from 1988 to 1991 during the final few years of the Soviet Union – reported the US has interfered in foreign elections for decades. However, a couple of old US intelligence hands were quoted in the article as saying the US meddling was for altruistic purposes. The CIA veterans charged that Russia interferes in foreign elections for purely malevolent purposes. The belief that American interference in global elections was to promote liberal democracy could not be further from the truth.

    The CIA never meddled in foreign elections for purposes of extending democratic traditions to other nations. The chief purpose was to disenfranchise leftist and progressive voters and political parties, ensure the veneer of “democracy” in totalitarian countries, and protect the interests of the US military bases and US multinational corporations.

    In double-talk that is reminiscent of the Cold War years, the CIA considers its election interference to fall under the category of "influence operations," while the same agency accuses Russia of "election meddling." In truth, there is no difference between the two categories. Election interference represents intelligence service “tradecraft” and it has been practiced by many intelligence agencies, including those of Israel, France, Britain, China, India, and others.

    On the rare occasions when the CIA's efforts to rig an election failed – as they did in Guatemala in 1950 and Chile in 1970 – the agency simply organized bloody military coups to replace with military juntas the democratically-elected presidents who defeated CIA-supported candidates at the polls.

    In 1954, the CIA’s Operation PBSUCCESS overthrew the Guatemalan government of President Jacobo Arbenz, who was elected in 1950 on a platform of agrarian reform that would improve the lives of Guatemala’s peasants, many of whom suffered under the indentured servitude of the US-owned United Fruit Company. United Fruit maintained industrial-level plantations across the country. Working with the CIA, United Fruit did its best to ensure defeat for Arbenz in the 1950 election. When that tactic failed, United Fruit, the CIA, and US Secretary of State John Foster Dulles devised a plan to overthrow Arbenz in a military coup. Guatemala became a stereotypical American-influenced “banana republic.”

    The Chilean junta that replaced Socialist President Salvador Allende, who was elected in 1970 despite massive CIA interference, transformed Chile into a testbed for the vulture capitalism devised by the “Chicago Boys” – a group of Chilean economists who studied under the neo-conservative economist Milton Friedman at the University of Chicago. Friedman called the massive free market laissez-faire policies instituted by the regime of General Augusto Pinochet the “Miracle of Chile.” The economic policies, which a US Senate Intelligence Committee investigation concluded were crafted with the help of the CIA, saw the elimination of trade tariffs, the mass sell-off of state-owned enterprises, cutting of taxes, privatization of the state-run pension system, and de-regulation of industry.

    In 1990, CIA election meddling in Nicaragua ensured a win for the opposition over the ruling Sandinista-led government. This type of meddling was repeated in the 2000 Serbian election, which saw President Slobodan Milosevic ejected from power. The ouster of Milosevic saw the first demonstrated cooperation in election meddling between the CIA and international hedfe fund tycoon George Soros’s Open Society Institute cadres. In 2009, the CIA attempted to defeat Afghan President Hamid Karzai for re-election. Although Karzai was re-elected, he bitterly complained about the CIA's interference in the election.

    MS-NBC constantly features as a contributing expert on Russia the former US ambassador to Moscow, Michael McFaul. However, McFaul never mentions how he funneled CIA cash – some $6.8 million in total – via the National Endowment for Democracy (NED) and its two branches, the International Republican Institute of the Republican Party and the National Democratic Institute of the Democratic Party, to Russian opposition leaders like Aleksei Navalny. Nor does the US media mention that the CIA and State Department funneled some $5 billion into Ukraine in order to bring about a pro-US government in that country.

    McFaul hosted Russian opposition party meetings at the US embassy and ignored warnings that Navalny's coalition included several neo-Nazi nationalists, who oppose immigrants hailing from south of the Russian border. Although he has been called by some Western journalists the "Russian Erin Brokovich" (an American environmental activist), Navalny is more like the "Russian David Duke." Duke is the former leader of the American racist group, the Ku Klux Klan.

    Declassified CIA files are replete with examples of agency interference in foreign elections, including state elections in India and West Germany and provincial elections in Australia, Canada, and Japan. In the 1950s, the CIA provided massive support to the West German Christian Democrats, which were led by Chancellor Konrad Adenauer. The CIA also did its best to suppress supprt for the West German Social Democrats and the far-right nationalist German Party in Berlin, Hesse, and Bavaria.

    In 1967, Indian Foreign Minister M. C. Chagla charged that the CIA "meddled" in India's election, mainly through financial donations to parties in opposition to the ruling Indian Congress party. The CIA particularly targeted Communist parties in West Bengal and Kerala states.

    Former Canadian Prime Minister John Diefenbaker of the Conservative Party charged in 1967 that CIA funds were used to bolster the Liberal Party, which contributed to Diefenbaker's electoral losses in two general elections held between May 1962 and June 1963. Diefenbaker's successor, Prime Minister Lester Pearson of the Liberal Party, discovered that the CIA funneled cash to the pro-Liberal Canadian Union of Students in 1965 and 1966.

    The CIA did everything possible to defeat for re-election the New Zealand Labor Party government of Prime Minister David Lange. The CIA provided propaganda support to the opposition National Party, which was opposed to Lange’s policy of denying entry to New Zealand waters of US nuclear-armed and nuclear-powered warships. The CIA ensured that pro-American media in New Zealand harped on about New Zealand record-high 6 percent unemployment, the nation’s foreign debt being half of its gross domestic product, and $1 billion budget deficit. The CIA also attempted to suppress traditional Maori support for Labor in the August 15, 1987 election, a cynical use of race-based politics to alter an election outcome.

    Between 1965 and 1967, the CIA station in Brazil, working in conjunction with the AFL/CIO union in the United States and its international arm, the American Institute of Free Labor Development (AIFLD), were discovered to be interfering in union elections in Brazil. The Sao Paulo office of the AIFLD, which was nothing more than a CIA front, made cash payments to Brazilian officials to corrupt union elections in the Brazilian petroleum sector. An itemized list of CIA bribes to Brazilian officials was discovered by a Sao Paulo union official: “Bonus to Jose Abud for collaboration – $156.25; Special payment to Dt. Jorge M. Filho of Labor Ministry – $875.00; Trip for Mr. Glaimbore Guimasaes, our informer at Fegundes St. – $56.25; Photocopies of books and documents of Petroleum Federation – $100.00; Assistance to Guedes and Eufrasio to defeat Luis Furtado of the Suzano Union – $140.64.”

    Prior to the September 4, 1964 Chilean presidential election, the leftist Popular Action Front opposition discovered that US chargé d’affaires Joseph Jova was assisting the Christian Democratic Party candidate. Christian Democrat Eduardo Frei Montalva, with the CIA’s help, defeated Allende.

    A CIA memo dated October 3, 1955, describes CIA support for the pro-Western. Masjumi Party in the Indonesian election, the nation’s first since independence. CIA director Allen Dulles appeared to be hopeful about the chances of a Masjumi victory due to Indonesia’s “large percentage of illiterates.” In the 1984 El Salvador presidential election, the CIA supported Christian Democrat Jose Napoleon Duarte over the more extreme-right winger, Roberto d’Aubisson. Republican US Senator Jesse Helms of North Carolina charged that the CIA “meddled” in the election on behalf of Duarte. It was even discovered that the “invisible ink” used on the fingers of those who had voted was supplied from the CIA.

    If the United States truly wants to halt foreign interference in elections, it must be the first to advocate and adhere to such a policy. Just as with the nuclear test-ban treaty, the convention to abolish biological and chemical weapons, and the treaty to prohibit weapons in outer space, the United States should call for an international treaty to ban election interference in all of its forms – the use of cyber-attacks, propaganda, social media manipulation, and funding of foreign political parties. Without such a commitment, US protestations about election meddling will continue to be a case of “do as I say, not as I do.”
     
  15. Analis

    Analis Justified & Ancient

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    And, for those who would believe that it didin't happen more recently :
    https://medium.com/@caityjohnstone/...t-election-meddling-is-hilarious-3262692029fe
    “We don’t do that anymore though? We don’t mess around in other people’s elections, Jim?” ^^
     
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2018
  16. Kingsize Wombat

    Kingsize Wombat Abominable Snowman

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    I think you are missing the point here. I'm pretty sure we all here know that the USA has meddled extensively in other countries.

    What's new here is that a US President (allegedly...) colluded with a foreign (and largely hostile) power to win an election.

    I don't think that's happened before.

    And what's largely new as well is the right wing's fondness for said foreign (and largely hostile) power.

    Previously, the same people called that "treason".
     
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2018
  17. kamalktk

    kamalktk Justified & Ancient

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  18. INT21

    INT21 Justified & Ancient

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    The whole thing seems to rotate about whether Trump is in debt financially to the Russians and could this leave him open to blackmail. The fact or otherwise of Russian interference with the last election is really secondary.

    INT21
     
  19. ramonmercado

    ramonmercado CyberPunk

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    Not so much conspiracy as an Appalachian challenging the idea that all Appalachians are Trump loving duelling banjo players. But it does reference the election.

    Elizabeth Catte: Appalachia Isn’t Trump Country
    The historian on J.D. Vance, colonial logic, and the end of coal in the region that outsiders love to imagine but can’t seem to understand.


    Appalachia is more than just a region in the eastern United States. For some Americans, it’s an important element in the story about why we have the president that we do. A case and point: Hillbilly Elegy, the 2016 bestselling memoir set in Appalachia, was proclaimed by the New York Times as one of “6 Books to Help Understand Trump’s Win.” But for Elizabeth Catte, a public historian and activist from Appalachia, it’s a place that many people just get wrong. The popular image of Appalachia as a home to a backwards, white population that’s trapped in a culture of poverty is a falsehood that people believe to avoid taking responsibility for social problems, she says. “I think it’s a basic kind of psychological desire that there is a place where everything that’s toxic and not progressive can be compartmentalized.”

    Catte grew up in East Tennessee, and writes about an Appalachia that we outsiders don’t hear much about in the news. It’s a place rich in diversity, with communities whose members include LGBTQ and people of color, and where the working class is not just made up of white male coal miners. Catte knows the region has problems, but says they are only made worse by false views of Appalachia that have a long history rooted in racism. And when Hillbilly Elegy, a book that Catte argues only perpetuates these dangerous stereotypes, became a national bestseller, she decided to write her own book to correct the record. Her work, What You Are Getting Wrong About Appalachia, is a short, compelling read, steeped in history, and serves as a wonderfully intelligent antidote to the untruths of our political moment. Also, depending on your notion of Appalachia, it can be transformative.

    I spoke with Catte recently over the phone about these “imaginary Appalachias” that bewitch our nation, why they have power over so many people, and the racism that underlies them. We talked about why she’s hopeful about the region, and how she, a person deeply interested in the history of the underrepresented, can help. “What is often lost to the public is that history is not really an organic process. It’s strategic, and shaped by people with power who tell us what we should remember and what should we forget. But I wanted to be somebody who busted silences and complicated history.”

    —Regan Penaluna for Guernica

    Guernica: What motivated you to write this book?

    Elizabeth Catte: The story of how this book came into being is that I moved from Tennessee to Texas about the same time that the last presidential election really started to heat up. I was a new person in a new environment, meeting loads of people in the university and business leaders and doing awkward small talk, and people were filling the silences with praise for the book Hillbilly Elegy. They were using it to convince me of this bigger conversation about the presidential election, and what Appalachia might do to the country.

    I began to notice more and more a sort of genre taking shape [in the media], which I call a “Trump Country” genre, that you also see reflected in Hillbilly Elegy. The Trump Country genre uses Appalachia to explain various manifestations of toxic politics and self-defeat, which were thought to be the side effect of the presidential election and the symptoms that called it into being. ...

    https://www.guernicamag.com/elizabeth-catte-appalachia-isnt-trump-country/
     
  20. Ermintruder

    Ermintruder Existential pixelfixer

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    Followers of this thread may be interested in the Trump segments & references contained in Adam Curtis's BBC documentary film "Hypernormalisation".

    A YouTube link to one uploaded version of the documentary is at

    (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HyperNormalisation and also the FTMB thread where we are discussing that film)

    It was released shortly before the 2016 Presidential election, and it intriguingly gives a number of in-context insights regarding Trump's past activities in a fashion that I feel, viewed with the benefit of hindsight, seems to presage his success at the ballot box. For example, the Trump : Putin bracketing within the film seems to have been remarkably-prescient.

    I found the historical background regarding the financial situation for the City of New York (and the 'Trump' brand) to be very interesting.

    Similarly, Trump's televised comments about 'financially screwing-over' those agencies that rented land for Gaddaffi's tent, during a notional US state visit made by The Colonel, are new to me (presumably not unknown, though, to other more-informed participants on this thread).

    Trump's surreal outré continues to fascinate me. Within 'Hypernomalisation', Curtis makes it clear that Trump was (prior to politics) effectively just a brand. I feel that this is what he still is - more overtly so than most other politicians, who either are deeper, bluff better, or are more-detailed in their depiction by the media.
     
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  21. dr wu

    dr wu Doctor Prog

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    I'm not sure I agree with that....the whole investigation into this started before Mueller with Obama originally looking into the election and possible Russian meddling. It has become one where later they began looking into other issues including what you mentioned regarding unethical financial issues and relationships on business.
    Based on what we know there is no doubt that the Trump camp was looking to meet the Russians (and did...) for dirt on Clinton. But Clinton was also looking for dirt ( this Steele dossier thing...) on Trump. I think they are both guilty of playing fast and loose with the past election.
    Since Trump has had business dealings with some questionable Russians for many years now there probably are some issues that could hurt him if they come out. Mueller is obviously digging deep but Trump is not the only person who has uneasy ties to Russians. I suspect that a good selection of politicians and other Washington connected people on both sides of the aisle are probably into some of these unethical and possibly illegal deals. The question is how far will Mueller and the FBI go with this and who will it touch.
     
  22. INT21

    INT21 Justified & Ancient

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    ..The question is how far will Mueller and the FBI go with this and who will it touch...

    Got to agree.

    what is standing out though is the extraordinary lengths Trump is going to try to stop Mueller looking.As it is suspected interference by a foreign power I am surprised the CIA are not more involved. Possibly they are.

    I'm sure something big will come out. And it may not be what we expect.

    INT21
     
  23. Analis

    Analis Justified & Ancient

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    I doubt that everybody really acknowledges that, as evidenced by their attempts to trivialize this inconvenient truth.

    US presidents have already colluded with foreign powers to be elected, as was the case with George Bush and John Major, and probably with Ronald Reagan and the Iranians. The largely hostile side, no, Russia is not hostile to the USA, not of its own will. US elites do want to have a hostile Russia facing them, and are doing their best to antogonize it ; and curiously, some among the public share this feeling, maybe as a result of Cold War nostalgia, or more prosaically because they have a Us versus Them mentality.
    Besides, why the uses of the word collusion/colluded ? Is it to avoid the use of conspiracy/conspired ?

    And now, a case of the USA meddling with a foreign power, this time indisputably an ally :
    https://www.theguardian.com/comment...itlam-1975-coup-ended-australian-independence

    The British-American coup that ended Australian independence
    John Pilger
    In 1975 prime minister Gough Whitlam, who has died this week, dared to try to assert his country’s autonomy. The CIA and MI6 made sure he paid the price
    Thu 23 Oct 2014 13.50 BST Last modified on Fri 14 Jul 2017 22.49 BST

    • Across the media and political establishment in Australia, a silence has descended on the memory of the great, reforming prime minister Gough Whitlam. His achievements are recognised, if grudgingly, his mistakes noted in false sorrow. But a critical reason for his extraordinary political demise will, they hope, be buried with him.

      Australia briefly became an independent state during the Whitlam years, 1972-75. An American commentator wrote that no country had “reversed its posture in international affairs so totally without going through a domestic revolution”. Whitlam ended his nation’s colonial servility. He abolished royal patronage, moved Australia towards the Non-Aligned Movement, supported “zones of peace” and opposed nuclear weapons testing.

      Although not regarded as on the left of the Labor party, Whitlam was a maverick social democrat of principle, pride and propriety. He believed that a foreign power should not control his country’s resources and dictate its economic and foreign policies. He proposed to “buy back the farm”. In drafting the first Aboriginal lands rights legislation, his government raised the ghost of the greatest land grab in human history, Britain’s colonisation of Australia, and the question of who owned the island-continent’s vast natural wealth.


      Latin Americans will recognise the audacity and danger of this “breaking free” in a country whose establishment was welded to great, external power. Australians had served every British imperial adventure since the Boxer rebellion was crushed in China. In the 1960s, Australia pleaded to join the US in its invasion of Vietnam, then provided “black teams” to be run by the CIA. US diplomatic cables published last year by WikiLeaks disclose the names of leading figures in both main parties, including a future prime minister and foreign minister, as Washington’s informants during the Whitlam years.

      Whitlam knew the risk he was taking. The day after his election, he ordered that his staff should not be “vetted or harassed” by the Australian security organisation, Asio – then, as now, tied to Anglo-American intelligence. When his ministers publicly condemned the US bombing of Vietnam as “corrupt and barbaric”, a CIA station officer in Saigon said: “We were told the Australians might as well be regarded as North Vietnamese collaborators.”

      Whitlam demanded to know if and why the CIA was running a spy base at Pine Gap near Alice Springs, a giant vacuum cleaner which, as Edward Snowden revealed recently, allows the US to spy on everyone. “Try to screw us or bounce us,” the prime minister warned the US ambassador, “[and Pine Gap] will become a matter of contention”.

      Victor Marchetti, the CIA officer who had helped set up Pine Gap, later told me, “This threat to close Pine Gap caused apoplexy in the White House … a kind of Chile [coup] was set in motion.”

      Pine Gap’s top-secret messages were decoded by a CIA contractor, TRW. One of the decoders was Christopher Boyce, a young man troubled by the “deception and betrayal of an ally”. Boyce revealed that the CIA had infiltrated the Australian political and trade union elite and referred to the governor-general of Australia, Sir John Kerr, as “our man Kerr”.

      Kerr was not only the Queen’s man, he had longstanding ties to Anglo-American intelligence. He was an enthusiastic member of the Australian Association for Cultural Freedom, described by Jonathan Kwitny of the Wall Street Journal in his book, The Crimes of Patriots, as “an elite, invitation-only group … exposed in Congress as being founded, funded and generally run by the CIA”. The CIA “paid for Kerr’s travel, built his prestige … Kerr continued to go to the CIA for money”.

      When Whitlam was re-elected for a second term, in 1974, the White House sent Marshall Green to Canberra as ambassador. Green was an imperious, sinister figure who worked in the shadows of America’s “deep state”. Known as “the coupmaster”, he had played a central role in the 1965 coup against President Sukarno in Indonesia – which cost up to a million lives. One of his first speeches in Australia, to the Australian Institute of Directors, was described by an alarmed member of the audience as “an incitement to the country’s business leaders to rise against the government”.

      The Americans and British worked together. In 1975, Whitlam discovered that Britain’s MI6 was operating against his government. “The Brits were actually decoding secret messages coming into my foreign affairs office,” he said later. One of his ministers, Clyde Cameron, told me, “We knew MI6 was bugging cabinet meetings for the Americans.” In the 1980s, senior CIA officers revealed that the “Whitlam problem” had been discussed “with urgency” by the CIA’s director, William Colby, and the head of MI6, Sir Maurice Oldfield. A deputy director of the CIA said: “Kerr did what he was told to do.”

      On 10 November 1975, Whitlam was shown a top-secret telex message sourced to Theodore Shackley, the notorious head of the CIA’s East Asia division, who had helped run the coup against Salvador Allende in Chile two years earlier.

      Shackley’s message was read to Whitlam. It said that the prime minister of Australia was a security risk in his own country. The day before, Kerr had visited the headquarters of the Defence Signals Directorate, Australia’s NSA, where he was briefed on the “security crisis”.

      On 11 November – the day Whitlam was to inform parliament about the secret CIA presence in Australia – he was summoned by Kerr. Invoking archaic vice-regal “reserve powers”, Kerr sacked the democratically elected prime minister. The “Whitlam problem” was solved, and Australian politics never recovered, nor the nation its true independence.

      •John Pilger’s investigation into the coup against Whitlam is described in full in his book, A Secret Country (Vintage), and in his documentary film, Other People’s Wars, which can be viewed on http://www.johnpilger.com/
     
  24. Kingsize Wombat

    Kingsize Wombat Abominable Snowman

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    They might downplay it, but it is undeniable.


    How?

    Not exactly a US President...

    True, I forgot about that one.

    It's the word used by the Mueller Investigation.




    We do remember that here, but it's a bit different from what we are talking about. Not better, just different.
     
  25. INT21

    INT21 Justified & Ancient

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    The Man says that the CIA (and all the other security organisations) are wrong about Russia. Ignores their findings. Calls them a bunch of incompetents.

    Then the replaces Tillerson with the CIA El Supremo as Secretary of State.

    How much more proof do we need ?

    INT21
     
  26. kamalktk

    kamalktk Justified & Ancient

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    Yesterday: Secretary of State Tillerson said Russia was responsible for the nerve agent poisoning of a Russian in the UK last week.

    Today: Secretary of State Tillerson was fired suddenly.
     
  27. Mythopoeika

    Mythopoeika I am a meat popsicle

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    All this hiring and firing is very worrying.
     
  28. kamalktk

    kamalktk Justified & Ancient

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    Tillerson gave a press conference just now. He said he learned he was fired from Trump's tweet about his replacement, Trump called him hours later.
     
  29. Mythopoeika

    Mythopoeika I am a meat popsicle

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    That's just a horrible way to treat a senior member of government (horrible for anyone).
    Trump hasn't got the guts to fire him in person?
     
  30. INT21

    INT21 Justified & Ancient

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    Yesterday: Secretary of State Tillerson said Russia was responsible for the nerve agent poisoning of a Russian in the UK last week..

    Didn't Trump agree that, 'yes, it was probably Russia' ?

    INT21
     
    Mythopoeika likes this.

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