Conspiracy in the U.S. Election & Trump's Presidency

Discussion in 'Conspiracy: General' started by Tribble, Nov 11, 2016.

  1. Ulalume

    Ulalume tart of darkness

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    Hey. I've been trying to tell people. :p

    JK Rowling had a fun response to the bewilderment at that story:
    https://twitter.com/jk_rowling/status/910318052306309120
     
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  2. Spookdaddy

    Spookdaddy Cuckoo

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    Fair is foul, and foul is fair;
    Hover through the fog and stupid hair...
     
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  3. Spookdaddy

    Spookdaddy Cuckoo

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    Hmmmm. Bannon...Banquo...

    Things that do sound so fair
     
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  4. Analis

    Analis Justified & Ancient

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    Yes, reverse psychology, a tool commonly used by manipulators... But in the case of the multiple 'Russian' hackings those recent years, the problem is that they're multiple, just too numerous and visible. They know that the majority of the public is credulous of its leaders' claims, and that it wouldn't work. It may have happened once or twice that Russians left deliberately their fingerprints, but if so it would be rather because they wanted their target to know that it was them ; the motive would be retaliation or a warning for its hostile policy. No, in the case of so many repeated and visible attacks, the motive appears to be to spread anti-Russian hatred and hysteria.

    When the DNC was hacked, it appears that there had been a massive anti-Russian campaign for more than a year. Targetting the DNC was in line with the propaganda that Hillary Rodham Clinton and Democrats were opposing Russian 'expansionnism' and then subject to their attacks, and more generally that Russians were attacking western democracy. The leaks came later, and may have had no relation with the hackings. Such is now believed to be the case of the German Parliament leaks relating to the computer attack that took place one year earlier

    https://www.rt.com/news/370648-germany-wikileaks-russian-hackers/
    A German article :
    https://www.morgenpost.de/politik/a...g-sucht-Daten-Dieb-in-den-eigenen-Reihen.html

    Nobody disputs that the attack happened ; its authors remain unknown, despite the usual hasty claims that they originated from Russians. But it seems now established that they have no links with the leaking of important Bundestag files.
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2017
  5. Kingsize Wombat

    Kingsize Wombat Devoted Cultist

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    Ok, I read this and - all it really says is that they don't have anything that leads to the Russians, so they suspect an inside job.

    In other words, they don't have a lead - period.

    Personally, I don't believe the Russians would be terribly interested in hiding the fact that they meddled in the US elections. It would (and does) play well for Putin at home.
     
  6. kamalktk

    kamalktk Justified & Ancient

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  7. Kingsize Wombat

    Kingsize Wombat Devoted Cultist

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    Truth be told, I feel like this is becoming :dhorse:material. Then again, the horse may just be resting...

    Source: https://www.theatlantic.com/technol...lities-of-the-facebook-russian-ad-buy/541002/
     
  8. Analis

    Analis Justified & Ancient

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    Errr... I am very sceptical ! Leaving evidence of their guilt in computer attacks and interference would definitely be detrimental to them. This would work indeed fine for Putin at home, Russians are of the opinion that if there really was an interference in the US election, given what the US had themselves repeatedly done to them in the past, they only had it coming (in fact, they would rather consider that they only got a small bit of what they deserved). But on the international scenery, Putin has been trying to keep good relations with Western countries, and recently he's definitely been involved in trying to improve those ties and to counter attempts at degrading them after the Ukrainian crisis, notably trying to get the lifting of sanctions. Rusians are certainly not working at demonizing their country. Which is the unavoidable result of this series of multiple hackings, in the USA and elsewhere, with its load of new sanctions edicted by the Congress.

    More precisely, they deduce from the way the leaks happened that they came from the inside, although it doesn't seem they have enough evidence to arrest anybody. However, only a few days before, an official had again told to the Frankfurter Allegemeine Sonntagszeitung that the Wikileaks files had come from the alleged Russian hackers, despite that it emerged that they had no evidence. Which should act as a warning to us relating to the reliability of all those anti-Russian accusations coming from officials.



    An example of a real Russian computer attack, which they would have left with hints of their involvment, would be the case of the NSA files that the Shadow Brokers had released on the internet one year ago. There, it could indeed be a public warning, the aim being to show to the world that they could retaliate, even against the NSA.
    http://sputniknews.com/us/20160820/1044450599/nsa-hacked-shadow-brokers-malware.html
    https://theintercept.com/2016/08/19/the-nsa-was-hacked-snowden-documents-confirm/
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2017
  9. kamalktk

    kamalktk Justified & Ancient

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  10. Mythopoeika

    Mythopoeika I am a meat popsicle

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  11. Kingsize Wombat

    Kingsize Wombat Devoted Cultist

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    Video at link: http://www.oann.com/roger-stone-allegations-of-russia-collusion-are-false/

    The "One America News Network" is for those people who find FOX a bit too pinko-commie.
     
  12. kamalktk

    kamalktk Justified & Ancient

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  13. Yithian

    Yithian Last Man Standing Staff Member

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    Sounds like a smutty book they might stock but seldom sell at an airport.
     
  14. kamalktk

    kamalktk Justified & Ancient

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  15. Ermintruder

    Ermintruder Existential pixelfixer

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    The (presumably-accurate?) stenographic record of Trump's remarks in Puerto Rico last week, at Luis Muñiz Air Force Base, in the recovery phase following Hurricane Maria.

    Just amazing....

    I wonder if, in the past (say, during Obama's presidency, or even right back to Nixon)...did the 'court reporters' take verbatim of every gaffe and goof-ball comment made by their then POTUS? Or, did they at least give the benefit of the doubt, and smooth-over the bumps?

    Because now (if we believe this) they are reporting it, literally, warts and all.

    https://www.whitehouse.gov/the-pres...trump-briefing-hurricane-maria-relief-efforts

    https://www.indy100.com/article/don...-visit-real-disaster-terrible-america-7981961

    "You have thrown our budget a little out of whack, because we've spent a lot of money on Puerto Rico and that's fine"

    Makes repeated references to at least the Puerto Rico storm not being nearly as bad as Katrina, and not a "real catastrophe" by comparison.

    Mistakes a US Air Force Officer as being a Coasguard. Pretends he knew that all along. Heads off into rambling tangents about F35 stealth fighters being literally invisible, and their high costs.

    At least he proved he's quite-effective at throwing bundles of hand-towels into crowds of storm survivors.

    But is his extended press corps now (or perhaps always) telling it exactly like it is, so as to hasten his political demise?
     
  16. kamalktk

    kamalktk Justified & Ancient

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    Well, that makes me feel so much better...

    https://www.rawstory.com/2017/10/ke...nt-he-lunges-for-the-nuclear-football-report/
    --------------------
    New York Magazine contributing editor Gabriel Sherman on Tuesday reported on a remarkable conversation he had with a senior Republican official, who described conversations Donald Trump’s chief of staff Gen. John Kelly and defense secretary James Mattis have had about “physically [restraining] the president” in the event he “[lunges] for the nuclear football.”
     
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  17. Ermintruder

    Ermintruder Existential pixelfixer

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    It's unclear precisely what's meant within the exchange between these two (as distinct from the inpression that's intended to be conveyed via the produced segment).

    He does appear to use the caveat "imagines". So this is not so much reporting as reckoning. Estimation, not measurement. Interpolation rather than interception. Logical but inadmissible.

    He also contradicts himself (the second, reporting reporter) with idiomatic use of the word "literally". Watch it again, and you'll hear what I mean (ie the nett difference between the spoken statements of the reporter versus the overall impression imparted).

    Court reporting this is not.

    But in any case, my apologies- I don't trust Trump. I would be far back in the queue of those standing in his defence.

    Though not as far back as I would be standing, in the queue to defend mainstream news media (which is itself substantially-indefencible)
     
  18. Shadowsot

    Shadowsot Devoted Cultist

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    Pretty sure they pawned over gaffes for every president. Obama did have a few, but he was also a trained public speaker. He practiced and probably knew how to speak to the media and what soundbites would be taken.
    Trump, frankly, doesn't care.
    Which his base is in full support of.
    What some might see as horrid, his supporters don't seem to, or at least not as bad as those who don't.
    And he's a TV personality. Bad press, good press, he's making ratings. Something he himself has mentioned.
     
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  19. Analis

    Analis Justified & Ancient

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    As opposed to British or US antivirus software, tied to the NSA or the GCHQ ? What reason exactely do we have to be worried of faraway powers, like China and Russia, who don't interfere in our lives and are unable to cause trouble ? While we do know that the NSA, the CIA, the GCHQ etc... not only are close to us, but are routinely spying on us and performing cyber-attacks. And we have all reasons to suspect that Norton, Mc Afee, BullGuard, Trend Micro etc... (not mentioning jokes like Chrome Cleanup and Microsoft Security) are open gates to them, given what we know of all important internet companies.
    I got rid last year of BitDefender, not for this reason but because they had swindled me when I tried to renew my subscription. But I was getting worried to use a software from a country so compliant with NATO's wishes. So I am now satisfied with using Kaspersky.
     
  20. George_millett

    George_millett Devoted Cultist

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    I'm sure the people who were locked out of the Estonian banking system by 'Russian Hacktivists' would disagree with you. Likewise the American companies whose computers are so full of Chinese spyware that keeping commercial and trade secrets is almost impossible. Or the people trying to work out how many backdoors are inside such vital things like the power network.
     
  21. maximus otter

    maximus otter Recovering policeman

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    You don't have the "Need to Know."

    A reporter recounts having an off-the-record chat with someone who declined to have his name used, who reports having heard a conversation between two third parties (who have not commented on the veracity or otherwise of the piece) concerning an unlikely, hypothetical future occurrence? Quality journalism at its best.

    Impeach Trump! Empress-in-Waiting Felonious Pantsuit for President!

    maximus otter
     
  22. Yithian

    Yithian Last Man Standing Staff Member

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    It is more than a little tenuous, isn't it?

    That said, I can picture Mattis effortlessly putting Trump in some kind of death-lock while he sobs and melts like butter.
     
  23. maximus otter

    maximus otter Recovering policeman

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    You don't have the "Need to Know."
    Yep, I'd put my money on Mattis in a ruck. I like the bloke's Marine Corps attitude:

    "Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet."

    "I’m going to plead with you, do not cross us. Because if you do, the survivors will write about what we do here for 10,000 years."

    http://freebeacon.com/national-security/the-best-from-mad-dog-mattis/


    maximus otter

     
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  24. Analis

    Analis Justified & Ancient

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    But would agree Chinese companies who were subjected to NSA hackings (included in Snowden's revelations), Iranians who had their nuclear factories put in danger by Israelo-US virus, Syrians who had their power and television network out of order, their judiciary hacked, independant researchers everywhere in Europe subjected to internet harassment (I've seen a journalist who required not to be sent any information via email...) etc etc...
    As for the backdoors, they were put there by people who gave the tools to build the network.
     
  25. Yithian

    Yithian Last Man Standing Staff Member

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    The left-wing media in the UK were trawling the British military establishment for negative reactions to his appointment earlier this year, but they didn't get any--I think the nickname set them off.

    I think every soldier who had met him said they respected him.
     
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  26. ramonmercado

    ramonmercado CyberPunk

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    Generals Kelly and McMaster are also capable of restraining Trump!
     
  27. Mythopoeika

    Mythopoeika I am a meat popsicle

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    I'll admit my initial reaction was like that when I first heard the nickname. But, as it turns out, he really is a good choice.
    A man who doesn't mess about.
     
  28. GNC

    GNC King-Sized Canary

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    Russia bought 3000 ads on Facebook just before the election:
    http://edition.cnn.com/2017/10/11/politics/facebook-ads-russia-congress/index.html

    http://money.cnn.com/2017/09/27/media/facebook-black-lives-matter-targeting/index.html
    Say what you like about the Russians, they're really good at this internet thing. The shit-stirring powers are strong with this one.
     
  29. dr wu

    dr wu Doctor Prog

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    So can those who have been following the Russian hacking of the US election give us an update?
    It seems clear that several people in the Trump camp /associates, etc met with (or talked with) various Russians before the elections....have they come clean on what was discussed at these meetings and why isn't anything happening if they are stalling or obstructing the investigation?
     
  30. kamalktk

    kamalktk Justified & Ancient

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    Multiple reasons.

    Stuff is happening, it's just that Mueller and his team run an airtight ship. They just don't leak. For instance Mueller's team interviewed Christopher Steele in London this past summer, something we only learned this week.

    The Watergate scandal took two years from the break-in to Nixon's resignation.
    http://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/complete-watergate-timeline-took-longer-realize/

    Finally, you come at the king you best not miss. There is evidence the Republican Party itself may have at least known, such as Speaker Ryan's remark to House Majority Leader Kevin McCarthy to not to even joke about Congressman Rohrenbacher and Trump being payed by the Russians, remarks made back in 2016... There were NRA meetings with Russians held in Russia (also in there, the NRA spent more supporting Trump than any Trump political organization did). Pence was put into place by Manafort (Manafort had Trumps plane intentionally delayed with fake mechanical problems in order to arrange Pence meeting Trump). Mueller's investigation potentially could wind up implicating the Republican Party as a whole, along with various organizations that are closely tied to it like the NRA. Given a potential scandal that would essentially destroy the entire party, Mueller's team needs to make an airtight case and that takes time.
     

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