Before Columbus Sailed the Ocean Blue

Discussion in 'Earth Mysteries: Historical & Classical Cases' started by Anonymous, Dec 19, 2001.

  1. Naughty_Felid

    Naughty_Felid No longer interesting

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    Goosing Les
    The two brothers from the show, (admittedly I've only seen a couple), seem genuine guys and have sunk a lot of their own money into the project. The guy who "found" the sword, doesn't come across as that honest and always struck me as a History Channel "fixit" man to help make the show work.
     
  2. ramonmercado

    ramonmercado CyberPunk

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    I moved the Sword posts as they seemed more at home here.
     
  3. ramonmercado

    ramonmercado CyberPunk

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    J. Hutton Pulitzer Alleges a Roman Sword Was Found Off Oak Island Several Decades Ago

    Many of you have undoubtedly heard the big news coming from Treasure Force Commander J. Hutton Pulitzer that a Roman sword was discovered at Oak Island, suggesting that the Romans reached Nova Scotia at some unspecified period in the past. The claim appeared in an obscure British regional newspaper, the Boston Standard of Lincolnshire, which is a very odd place to announce the discovery of a major artifact. But that’s par for the course with people like Pulitzer, who try to inject unsupported ideas into the mainstream by filtering them through small and obscure publications with lower editorial standards in the hope that it will legitimize their unconventional ideas. It’s hard not to think that Pulitzer chose the Boston Standard because it can easily be confused for a paper from Boston, Mass., and thus offer greater prestige. However, since the author says that Pulitzer spoke to the parent company, Johnston Press of Edinburgh, that might not be the case.

    The sword was set to be featured on Curse of Oak Island this season, but Pulitzer seems to have wanted his version of the story out before the episode airs. (Pulitzer appeared in an earlier season of the show.) The sword is allegedly to be shown only “briefly” on Oak Island, suggesting that the Lagina brothers, the stars of the show, may not give much credence to the tale Pulitzer spins about it. Pulitzer used the article to complain that Oak Island didn’t give him enough screen time because the show wasn’t interested in anything but Knights Templar.

    In an interview with the Standard, Pulitzer said that the sword had been discovered either “some years” or “several decades” ago, by an unnamed individual who allegedly kept the sword hidden for fear that the government would seize it as illegally recovered from Oak Island, where treasure hunting without a permit has been illegal since 2010. Of course Pulitzer provided no documentation to confirm that the sword had been uncovered where and when he alleges. ...

    http://www.jasoncolavito.com/blog/j...-was-found-off-oak-island-several-decades-ago
     
  4. Matthew1034

    Matthew1034 Junior Acolyte

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    Is this is a rank officially given by the admilraty?
     
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2016
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  5. ramonmercado

    ramonmercado CyberPunk

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    J. Hutton Pulitzer must be getting desperate. He’s started lashing out at anyone and everyone who criticizes him. He says that he sent a letter of complaint to the CanadianChronicle Herald newspaper that criticized his claims about the alleged “Roman” sword of Oak Island, and in a podcast last night he asked his fans to send hate mail to that newspaper to protest their alleged “bias” against him and his ideas. In so doing, he made a number of false statements about me and Andy White, some of which bordered on the libelous. I will let White speak for himself, but I will take issue with Pulitzer’s assertions about me.

    I’m not sure why Pulitzer has decided to start attacking me, but when I tried to use Google to get to his various websites, I think I see one reason: My blog posts about him and his websites come up before his own sites in Google searches for his name and those of his websites. (Your results may vary depending on your search history and Google’s algorithms.) For example, when I lost the link to the podcast, I had the damnedest time trying to use a search engine to call it up again and kept getting results from my own website. There’s a lesson in that for Pulitzer: Try having just one main website and filling it with quality content rather than having dozens of half-assed websites that dilute your impact and make it hard to find where your content is. ...

    http://www.jasoncolavito.com/blog/d...er-and-accuses-me-of-being-paid-to-attack-him
     
  6. rynner2

    rynner2 Great Old One

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    New evidence of Viking life in America?
    Dan Snow
    .............

    Vikings conquered Normandy in France - the land of the Northmen - even parts of Italy and the Levant. They also founded Dublin, made deep inroads into England and island-hopped across the North Atlantic. Orkney, Shetland, Fair Isle and Iceland.

    They even crossed to Greenland, where I visited stunning Viking sites on the coast, dodging icebergs to get ashore. But perhaps their greatest achievement is the one shrouded in the most mystery. Did they get to North America? If so, was it a fleeting visit or did they colonise that distant coast too, centuries before Christopher Columbus?

    The descendants of the Vikings left sagas - beautiful works of literature in which fact and fiction are often poetically intermixed. They clearly state that the intrepid Leif Erikson led an expedition to the east coast of North America. They describe good harbours, and an abundance of natural resources. One of the most fascinating mysteries in history is whether these can be believed.

    In 1960, a site on the very northernmost tip of Newfoundland in Canada, L'Anse aux Meadows, was investigated and archaeologists were convinced that it was a Viking settlement. The world woke up to the fact that the Vikings had reached North America before any other Europeans. But no other site has been identified, the search for Viking America stalled. Until now.

    Sarah Parcak uses satellite imagery to look for irregularities in the soil, potentially caused by man-made structures which lie beneath. She has used this technique to find ancient sites in Egypt and a few years ago she scoured the Roman Empire where she identified the site of the great lighthouse at Portus near Rome and several other buildings, from a fort in Tunisia to ramparts in Romania. Last year, she decided to search for the Vikings.

    It wasn't easy. They travelled light and left nothing behind. No massive stone theatres for them. They voyaged in longships with a strong oak keel, and thin overlapping planks fanning out to form the iconic, graceful hull - the gaps between the planks stuffed with animal hair and tar. The rudder was fixed on with a twisted birch sapling. Sails spun from wool. Food was pickled herring, lamb smoked using reindeer droppings, fermented salmon. Almost everything on a Viking ship would get recycled or rot away. But they did leave a trace, and Parcak's team were determined to pick it up, however faint.

    They scanned satellite pictures from across the east coast of America. Several sites appeared worth following up, but they had to decide on one for a dig. In the end they opted for a headland, almost the very western tip of Newfoundland, 400 miles further south and west than the only known Viking site in North America.

    It overlooked two bays, offering protection for ships from any wind direction. Parcak saw oddities in the soil that stood out - patterns and discolourations that suggested artificial, man-made structures, possibly even Viking longhouses, once stood there.

    It was time to leave the lab, and head out into the field. For a couple of weeks Parcak led the team as they carefully probed the ground that she had first spotted thanks to a satellite hundreds of miles away in space.
    Newfoundland's climate is as brutal as ours in the British Isles with hail, gales, sweltering sun and driving rain. Exploratory trenches were flooded, equipment blew away, but they toughed it out and found something tantalising.

    Months before, in her lab, Sarah had shown me an image that she thought might be the site of burning or metalwork. Sure enough, when she started to dig on the exact spot, she found something. Something that might prove to be a breakthrough. Carefully peeling back the layers of earth, she found what seemed to be a hearth.
    A blackened rock testified to intense temperatures. Beneath it were piles of charcoal mixed with cooked bog iron - an iron deposit that needs to be baked to drive off impurities and allow the iron to be extracted for smelting. Surrounding the hearth appeared to be a turf wall of the kind built by Viking settlers across the North Atlantic.
    "I am absolutely thrilled," says Parcak. "Typically in archaeology, you only ever get to write a footnote in the history books, but what we seem to have at Point Rosee may be the beginning of an entirely new chapter.
    "This new site could unravel more secrets about the Vikings, whether they were the first Europeans to 'occupy' briefly in North America, and reveal that the Vikings dared to explore much further into the New World than we ever thought."

    She immediately checked that there could be no other explanation for these deposits. Newfoundland historian Olaf Janzen was certain, no other groups of settlers roasted bog iron in Newfoundland. Nothing has been proven yet, but it looks like Parcak might have found evidence for Viking exploration in North America that goes much further than just that one site discovered in the 60s.

    This find "has the potential to change history" says Douglas Bolender, an expert on Viking settlement who has spent 15 years tracking the Vikings across the north Atlantic. "Right now the simplest answer is that it looks like a small activity area, maybe connected to a larger farm that is Norse." He is excited and can't wait to see what further excavation reveals. He's hoping that seeds or other organic matter that can be carbon dated will be unearthed.

    If Parcak has found evidence of another Viking site, it will ignite a new search for Viking settlements across eastern Canada and New England, perhaps as far south as New York and even beyond. Technology has unlocked long forgotten stories from our past, and that technology is getting ever more sophisticated. For those of us who are fascinated by the travels of the intrepid Norsemen, the next few years will provide ever more inspiration.

    (Pics and more on page.)
    ------------------------------------------------
    In The Vikings Uncovered Dan Snow tracks their expansion west, first as raiders and then as settlers and traders. He travels through Britain, to Iceland, Greenland and Canada to see what could be the most westerly Viking settlement ever discovered. The programme will be on BBC One on Monday 4 April at 20:30.
     
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  7. rynner2

    rynner2 Great Old One

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    If like me you missed this last night, it's now on iPlayer:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b076r0sr/the-vikings-uncovered

    I'm about halfway through its 90 minutes. Quite good so far, with effective use made of what I take to be drone footage for aerial views of various places. (Gotta be cheaper than a helicopter!)
     
  8. ramonmercado

    ramonmercado CyberPunk

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    I recorded it. Looking forward to it.
     
  9. eburacum

    eburacum Papo-furado

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    Birgitta Wallace, an expert on L'Anse aux Meadows, is not convinced. The iron blooms found at this site might be bog iron which has been converted accidentally by camp fires. It is a shame, but all the direct evidence for Vikings on the ground is really meagre, except at L'Anse.
     
  10. ramonmercado

    ramonmercado CyberPunk

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    Has the "Self-Sown Wheat" of Vinland Been Identified?

    The other day I mentioned that a second potential Norse site had been discovered in Newfoundland, and in the ensuing comments I mentioned that using the Icelandic Sagas’ stories of how the Vikings discovered Vinland to locate the area geographically can be problematic because it is difficult to separate the historical truth from the myths and legends that were folded into the stories. To that end, I received an interesting email informing me that some supporters of the veracity of the Sagas claim to have identified the wheat found in the poems as a New World plant, Spartina patens, marsh hay cordgrass.

    To understand this claim, we need to back up and take a look at the Sagas and what they have to say about the products of the New World. In one of the two Sagas about the discovery of Vinland, the Saga of Erik the Red, found in the Hauksbók (c. 1302-1310) and theSkálholtsbók (c. 1450), but likely written in the 1200s, we read that the voyagers to Vinland found both grapes and wild wheat: “There they found fields of wild wheat wherever there were low grounds; and the vine in all places where there was rough rising ground” (ch. 10, trans. Rev. J. Sephton). Other translators call the “wild” wheat “self-sown” wheat. This detail doesn’t appear in the alternate version of the story given in the Flateyjarbók (1387-1394).

    As it happens, we know that the “wild wheat” is original to the story because it appears in the oldest reference to Vinland in existence, that of Adam of Bremen, writing in Descriptio Insularum Aquilonis 38 (Gesta Hammaburgensis 4.38) in 1075 CE: ...

    http://www.jasoncolavito.com/blog/has-the-self-sown-wheat-of-vinland-been-identified
     
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  11. ramonmercado

    ramonmercado CyberPunk

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    Review of "Templar Sanctuaries in North America" by William F. Mann (Part 1)

    Well, isn’t this exciting! William F. Mann, a conspiracy theorist who claims descent from Templar Holy Bloodline Grail Guardians, is preparing to release his latest Knights Templar conspiracy book, Templar Sanctuaries in North America: Sacred Bloodlines and Secret Treasure, with a foreword by Scott F. Wolter of America Unearthed. The book is due out on May 30 from Destiny Books, but I have early access to the text. It’s not exactly going to change anyone’s mind, but it might tax your patience!

    Scott Wolter’s Foreword
    Wolter begins by telling readers how excited he is that pre-Columbian European colonization of the Americas is “finally” escaping the suppression of mainstream academics, who have been keeping this information hidden since… 1930? 1940? Diffusionism has a long history among scholars from the 1500s down to the twentieth century, and it’s really only the modern period when we see that archaeological fact undercut traditional speculation. As with so many fringe figures, Wolter is angry at his textbooks from the middle twentieth century, and with midcentury American cultural consensus in general. ...

    Wolter says that it is impossible that the Norse colonized part of North America but that no other Europeans followed for five centuries; therefore, it is time to reveal the history of Templar operations in America between 1307 and 1492, “the only logical candidates” for the creators of the Kensington Rune Stone, which he continues to believe is the key to understanding world history, conveniently located near his home in Minnesota. He then comes dangerously close to claiming that the U.S. and Canadian governments committed genocide against Native Americans to wipe out evidence of the Templars. He does assert that the Catholic Church intended to eliminate Native Americans for similar reasons, and that the Templars allegedly warned them, carving the Kensington Rune Stone—get this!—to assert their protection over the Native peoples in the face of Catholic genocide through a “preemptive land claim”! Wolter says they did so because of the memory of the “genocide” Catholics committed against Holy Bloodline goddess worshipers in 1307, i.e. the suppression of the Templar order. ...

    http://www.jasoncolavito.com/blog/r...ies-in-north-america-by-william-f-mann-part-1
     
  12. kamalktk

    kamalktk Justified & Ancient

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    The Templars don't seem to have done a great job.
     
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  13. ramonmercado

    ramonmercado CyberPunk

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    Is Early Medieval Latin the Key to Unlocking the Tucson Lead Artifacts?

    Regular readers will remember that I have no particular patience for people who proclaim that the Tucson Lead Artifacts are a genuinely medieval archive of records from Jewish colonists who fought the Toltec in eighth-century Arizona. That has not stopped generations of fringe theorists from proclaiming them proof of European diffusion into America during the European Dark Ages. The latest to make the claim is Donald N. Yates, whom regular readers will recall as the founder of DNA Consultants, a company that sells DNA testing kits of dubious value and which proclaims that DNA evidence proves that Yates’s Native American ancestors were actually Jews and thus America is, by implication, the new and true Promised Land of God.

    Yates’s claims are hardly different than those that preceded him, but he uses his academic credentials to suggest that his interpretation of the Lead Artifacts is more academically grounded than those of his critics. Yates, who has previously presented himself as a fringe historian and a DNA expert, now falls back on his doctoral degree in Classics from the University of North Carolina, in which he says he specialized in Dark Age Latin. Yates earned a Ph.D. in 1979, and his dissertation was on the “Isengrimus” attributed to Simon of Ghent, who flourished in the 1300s. Such qualifications, Yates says, qualify him to determine the authenticity of the artifacts.

    “To make that decision, you have to have credentials in certain areas—in medieval Latin and paleography (the study of ancient manuscripts) and epigraphy, which is the study of inscriptions,” Yates told the Epoch Times on Saturday. “I’m a classicist, I have a Ph.D. in classical studies specializing in medieval Latin and paleography. I have a whole row of publications in that very, very tiny specialized area.” ...

    http://www.jasoncolavito.com/blog/i...he-key-to-unlocking-the-tucson-lead-artifacts
     
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  14. Tribble

    Tribble Furry Idiot

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    The world's largest Viking ship in modern times has reached Canada after a challenging journey across the Atlantic, departing Scandinavian shores in late April.

    Björn Ahlander, the ship's Swedish captain, ordered the great dragon vessel – named after Harald Hårfagre, the king who unified Norway in the 10th century – to drop anchor at St Anthony in Newfoundland, Canada, on Wednesday, after more than a month at sea.

    "I am proud of the men and what we have achieved en route. It has not been easy. We have encountered many problems on the trip, but the crew has remained in good spirits and has worked hard all the way," he told reporters.

    Following in the historical tailwind of Leif Eriksson, the Viking thought to have discovered America centuries before Christopher Columbus, the ship left Norway's Avaldsnes on April 26th, taking a route via the Faroe Islands, Shetland Islands, Iceland and Greenland.

    The journey offered stark contrasts, with the crew battling winds, ice and rain – but also calm waters, sunshine and even the wedding of two of its crew members on Greenland.

    Harald Hårfagre is equipped with modern navigational tools, but also historical aids such as log lines and magnetic and solar compasses. It was accompanied by another boat during the Atlantic crossing, on standby to rescue the 33-strong crew on board if things had gone awry.

    An impressive 35 metres long, eight metres wide and with a mast height of 24 metres, Harald Hårfagre is the world's biggest longship built in modern times. Sponsored by Norwegian businessman Sigurd Aase, it was completed in 2012.

    The ship is set to remain at St Anthony for a couple of days and will then sail onwards to Quebec, Toronto and several places in the United States.


    http://www.thelocal.se/20160602/ahoy-the-vikings-are-back-in-north-america

    http://www.torontosun.com/2016/06/0...6-week-atlantic-voyage-recreating-early-sagas
     
  15. ramonmercado

    ramonmercado CyberPunk

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    "The Templars of Ancient Mexico": A Study in Racism and Sexism in the Creation of Fringe History
    8/12/2016

    I have now finished translating Eugène Beauvois’s 1902 article on “The Templars of Ancient Mexico and Their European Origins,” and I have to say that it surprised even me, both in the scope of its ridiculous claims and the extremely close resemblance it bears to modern Templar conspiracy theories. It’s not the most elegant translation I’ve ever done, but it gets the point across. I omitted the excessively long footnotes, both because I kind of got bored by the end of the translation and also because, aside from the primary source references, they were often directing readers to Beauvois’s own earlier work, or to other outdated fringe claims. Perhaps someday when I have more time I’ll add them in, but I doubt it.

    It turns out that Beauvois, an archaeologist specializing in Nordic and pre-Columbian cultures, was a prolific fringe historian, producing dozens of articles alleging all manner of European incursions into America. He wrote of the Welsh in North America, of the Celts in Mexico, and of the Vikings in America. He endorsed the Zeno manuscript hoax, too. He began innocently enough in 1859, at age 24, with the (correct) conclusion that the Icelandic sagas recorded a memory of the Vikings discovering what is now North America. But from this he drew an incorrect conclusion. Unable to conceive of Native Americans as real humans with their own cultures, he assumed that the overwhelming moral force of Christianity and the intellectual superiority of European Man led the Natives to immediately adopt European culture. He went on to suggest that the path followed by the Vikings was the route that the Irish and eventually the Knights Templar eventually took from Europe to America, landing in the north and walking south in Mexico, guided by the tribes they evangelized.

    This argument came to its fruition in an 1897 article whose title we can translate as “Traces of the Influence of Europeans on the Pre-Columbian Languages, Science, and Industries of Mexico and Central America,” an article that the Journal of American Folk-Loredismissed as being “of doubtful value.” His argument was that passages in Plutarch referring to the island of Ogygia where the Celts say Kronos lies sleeping (De Defectu Oraculorum 18 and De Faciae 27) actually refer to Mexico, thus proving that the Celts had been in contact with Mexico since Antiquity. Of course for the sequel the proud Frenchman would need to prove that the French had outdone these old Irishmen.

    In the 1902 article, acceptance of his earlier argument is taken for a given, and he refers to it many times. As I have previously described, in the article he assumes that the title of the nation of Native Mexicans who served in the temple of Tezcatlipoca, the Tecpantlacs, refer to the Knights Templar because the word means “people of the palace-temple,” which he compares to the name of the Templars, the Poor Knights of Christ and the Temple of Solomon, with the addition of claiming that the Temple of Solomon doesn’t refer to the actual Temple but rather to the basilica beside the old temple grounds where the Knights made their Levantine headquarters. ...

    http://www.jasoncolavito.com/blog/t...-and-sexism-in-the-creation-of-fringe-history
     
  16. ramonmercado

    ramonmercado CyberPunk

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    The reason you’re reading this is because Scott Wolter said something weird again. In comments on his blog this week, Wolter explained his newfound belief, apparently acquired from his recent efforts to align his work with that of Graham Hancock, that ancient peoples held regular world council meetings where representatives of various cultures gathered together to shape history. Here is what he said:

    Personally, I think there was a world wide exchange of knowledge and information prior to the Younger-Dryas period that experienced a massive reduction in the high culture of humans that existed beforehand. I know Graham Hancock personally, and recently discussed his latest book with he and Robert Schoch. Robert has a different theory about what caused the massive population reduction around the planet, but the two are friends and it was refreshing to see two intelligent individuals with competing ideas present their ideas without attacking the other. this is how it's supposed to be.

    I've also heard that indigenous people meeting regularly for thousands of years on a different continent each time there was a world council meeting. I asked one of these elder (they still hold meetings to this day) how they got to the meetings in ancient times and he said, "By boat."

    I can hear the debunkers now...


    If we take his words literally, it sounds like he was talking to a 12,500-year-old immortal, but it sounds rather like he got the idea from a Native American informant, passing along what was claimed to be oral history. It is prima facieimprobable, if for no other reason than this world council somehow failed to distribute the fruits of the Old and New Worlds around the world, except for the odd cigarette or line of cocaine, yet was 100% effective in preventing the spread of diseases from the Old World to the New and vice versa over thousands of years of regular contact by (presumably) at least the low number of Europeans who sparked the epidemics that felled two continents’ worth of people after 1492.

    The trouble with oral history is that it is gets revised and edited with each new teller, and it is easy enough to find examples of modern material worked into and presented as “ancient” history. Add to that the regrettable influence of fringe history on pop culture, and you have a recipe for unreliable narration of past events, particularly those alleged to have taken place 12,500 years ago! ...

    http://www.jasoncolavito.com/blog/w...ld-intercontinental-world-conference-meetings
     
  17. kamalktk

    kamalktk Justified & Ancient

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    I'd like to see Mr. Wolter's list of peoples who didnt visit the americas.
     

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