Are U.S. Christian Fundamentalists Stoking War In The Middle-East?

Discussion in 'Conspiracy: General' started by Anonymous, Apr 8, 2002.

  1. Mythopoeika

    Mythopoeika I am a meat popsicle

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    Mars might do.
     
  2. ramonmercado

    ramonmercado CyberPunk

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    The Red Planet!

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  3. ramonmercado

    ramonmercado CyberPunk

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    And it continues. This is by a news host!

    Fox News Host: Trump Fulfilled Biblical Prophecy By Moving U.S. Embassy To Jerusalem

    ... In comments on the network and in a column on the Fox News website, Pirro said:

    ″[Trump], like King Cyrus before him, fulfilled the biblical prophecy of the gods worshipped by Jews, Christians and, yes, Muslims, that Jerusalem is the eternal capital of the Jewish state and that the Jewish people finally deserve a righteous, free and sovereign Israel.”

    https://www.yahoo.com/news/fox-news-host-trump-fulfilled-083426392.html?.tsrc=fauxdal&guccounter=1
     
  4. Mythopoeika

    Mythopoeika I am a meat popsicle

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    Fundie Christians talk about helping the Jews take back the Dome of the Rock and rebuilding a temple there. They talk all the time about end-time scenarios.
    It's best to back away from the crazy.
     
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  5. kamalktk

    kamalktk Justified & Ancient

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    Pirro is not a news host. She's a talk show host on "Fox News". There is a difference that's muddied by calling the station Fox News.
     
  6. Jim

    Jim Ephemeral Spectre

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    I've Cristian beliefs. Many Christians have biblical "even fundamental" beliefs w/o being "so called crazy, etc.". Yet some so-called Christians confuse and irritate me. They have crazy beliefs that either make up or will bend the Bible for their own convenience. I.e.: earth is (6 to 10) K years old, we are near the end of time (end times), which isn't even biblical if ones inspects the texts, to name a few. These people can mislead others into thinking all Christians are out there. Be they fundamentalist or not.
     
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  7. Mythopoeika

    Mythopoeika I am a meat popsicle

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    Apologies if I gave offence, but I spent much of my youth around such people, who were always talking about bringing on the end-times and retaking the Dome of the Rock, stuff like that. I have family who are Baptists. They're almost fundamentalist in some of their beliefs too.
    It made me the atheist I am today.
     
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  8. Jim

    Jim Ephemeral Spectre

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    None taken! I was trying to say that they aren't all maniac's who desire to impose there beliefs on everyone and pay absolutely no attention to science.
    I attended a service once. They told me it was unlawful to except my veterans benefits since I was no longer active duty. I earned the benefits by due to disability, didn't matter to those dipsh*ts.
     
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  9. Yithian

    Yithian Incredulous Staff Member

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    WEBSITE:
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    Jeanine Pirro has the most ridiculously fake 'NEWS ACCENT' I have ever heard. That merged with pseudo-street brawler. Can you imagine her ordering lunch in that voice--artificially stressing and elongating random words? You'd just stare at her as if she were an alien.
     
  10. Waymarker

    Waymarker Devoted Cultist

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    Fox News Host: Trump Fulfilled Biblical Prophecy By Moving U.S. Embassy To Jerusalem
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Hallelujah, the Don in prophecy..:)-

    [​IMG]

    Jesus said-"And even the very hairs of your head are all numbered" (Matt 10:30)

    [​IMG]
     
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  11. Mythopoeika

    Mythopoeika I am a meat popsicle

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    Hair-le-lujah!
     
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  12. jimv1

    jimv1 Analogue Boy

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    And I’m pretty sure it must have looked like a few other people across the globe in its 700 year history.
     
  13. Waymarker

    Waymarker Devoted Cultist

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    Hallelujah..:)

    [​IMG]

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------
    [​IMG]
     
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  14. INT21

    INT21 Justified & Ancient

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    And looking back...

    ..
    December 8 - 14, 2004

    Is Bush the Antichrist?

    The Christian right and the Christian left are engaged in a debate over who 'owns' Jesus—and whether Dubya is a force for good or evil.

    by Tim Appelo


    When President George W. Bush was appointed by five Supreme Court justices in 2000, right-wing Christians sang hosannas for the triumph of God's will over the electorate's. "President Bush is God's man at this hour," said Tim Goeglein, Bush's liaison to evangelicals. Though the Methodist president dishonestly conceals the whole truth about his apocalyptic religious beliefs, he has acted as an evangelist in office. As Esther Kaplan demonstrates in With God on Their Side: How Christian Fundamentalists Trampled Science, Policy, and Democracy in George W. Bush's White House, he's doled out millions to far-right Christian groups, systematically crushed secular left and nonright mainstream organizations from Head Start to the Audubon Society, and replaced policy and scientific experts with comically ignorant yet politically cunning fanatic provocateurs. Out with the American Medical Association, in with the American Family Association. Before Bush, the Internal Revenue Service hounded the Christian Coalition; now that Bush is, in extremist Gary Bauer's opinion, the de facto leader of the Christian Coalition, the government selectively harasses non-Christian groups, and a rightist apparatchik tried to sneak through Congress a bill legitimizing the kinds of politically targeted IRS abuses that would have made Richard M. Nixon proud.

    Televangelist and onetime presidential candidate Pat Robertson once rallied millions to lobby God for the deaths of liberal Supreme Court justices, recommending prayers for coronaries and cancer. "We ask for miracles!" preached Robertson. Today, the judiciary's Clinton-era moderates haven't even a prayer against the Reagan/Bush rightists. Author Tim LaHaye, whose Left Behind thrillers based on the Bible's "end times" stories are America's best-selling books for adults, once helped destroy the Jack Kemp presidential campaign he co-chaired by demanding 25 percent of government jobs for the Christian right's 25 percent of the population. Today, no way does Bush's "Evangetaliban"—which claims responsibility for winning Bush a second term in 2004—intend to settle for less than 100 percent.

    But not every follower of the Prince of Peace is shouting amen to Bush/Robertson/Falwell's Killer Christians. Granted, the fastest-growing churches are either evangelical—Bible believers out to win your soul—or fundamentalists, out to bend your soul to their bluenose will and so literal when it comes to the Bible that some insist Christ's parables refer to actual people and events. Fundies also incline to the authoritarianism of Oswald Chambers, the 19th-century Christian whose harsh sermonettes against rational analysis and for a gut response to God Bush reads each morning (perhaps on this Web site: www.gospelcom.net/rbc/utmost ).



    "He's not the Antichrist, he's just a cynical, callous politician,"

    . . "

    "This is not about George Bush, this is about this whole administration. It's about Karl Rove, it's about the neocons, some of whom are Christian, some who aren't, but who are using Christian rhetoric. James Dobson [of Focus on the Family] has direct access to the highest echelons of American government.

    . Fifty-one percent of Americans voted for Bush; 59 percent believe Revelation will come true. Without one scrap of scriptural evidence, almost one-quarter of Americans believe Revelation predicted 9/11.


    Bush policy is based on what he told his Harvard Business School professor— "Poor people are poor because they're lazy." Responds Lang, "Again, anti-Christ. It's just the opposite [of Christ's teaching].



    And you think Trump is bad. Seems GWB got his share of bruises.
    All is change, but nothing changes.

    INT21
     
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  15. kamalktk

    kamalktk Justified & Ancient

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    He's not the Antichrist, he's just a very naughty boy.
     
  16. ramonmercado

    ramonmercado CyberPunk

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    That would have been planned undeer Obama! That trophy head is on Barry's wall!
     
  17. Waymarker

    Waymarker Devoted Cultist

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    Most Christians are content to leave it to God to bust people's asses on judgement day, but there are some who say "Why wait? Let's give him a helping hand right now!", and use this verse as backup (my underlining)-
    "The ungodly...they are like brute beasts, creatures of instinct, born only to be caught and destroyed.." (2 Peter 2:12)

    As regards the Antichrist, the word appears in only 4 Bible verses (below, my underlining) which indicate that the Antichrist may well not be just one man/woman, but can also be a vile spirit that infects thousands around the world, we can see evidence of it every time we open a newspaper or switch on the TV news..
    "..the man who denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a man is the antichrist, he denies the Father and the Son" (1 John 2:22/3)

    "Many deceivers, who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh, have gone out into the world. Any such person is the deceiver and the antichrist" (2 John 1:7)
    "..every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus, is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world" (1 John 4:3)
    "Dear children, this is the last hour; and as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come.." (1 John 2:18 )

    This verse suggests they are- literally- sick in the head-
    "To the pure all things are pure, but to those who are defiled and unbelieving nothing is pure; but even their mind and conscience are defiled" (Titus 1:15)
     
    Last edited: May 18, 2018
  18. Waymarker

    Waymarker Devoted Cultist

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    Revelation is full of prophecies which might or might not refer to 9/11, so anybody's guess is as good as anybody elses..:)
    In fact many prophecies throughout the entire Bible could refer to any world event past present or future depending on how we choose to interpret them, e.g.-

    [​IMG]


    "Cover their faces with shame so that men will seek your name, O Lord" (Psalm 83:16)

    [​IMG]


    "He who digs a hole and scoops it out falls into the pit he has made" (Psalm 7:15)

    [​IMG]


    "And they shall go into the holes of the rocks, and into the caves of the earth, for fear of the Lord.." - Isaiah 2:10
    [​IMG]


    "The spider takes hold with her hands, and is in kings palaces"- Proverbs 30:28 KJV
    US troops near one of Saddam Hussein's abandoned palaces in Bayji, Iraq 2008-
    [​IMG]



    "Raise a banner on a bare hilltop, I have summoned my warriors to carry out my wrath..they come from faraway lands..to destroy the whole country..and destroy the sinners within it" (Isaiah ch 13)
    [​IMG]



    "Fallen! Fallen is Babylon the Great!" (Revelation 18:2)

    US troops after capturing Baghdad International Airport 2003-
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: May 18, 2018
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  19. Jim

    Jim Ephemeral Spectre

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    An awesome post. A few good (bad) hair days.
     
  20. AlchoPwn

    AlchoPwn Ephemeral Spectre

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    In terms of the question of this forum "Are Christian Fundamentalists stoking war in the Middle East", the answer is that this grants them rather more agency than they possess. Religious movements don't do their own thinking. Instead, the agenda is set by the selective use of scripture, a process that Jesuits refer to as "casuistry", but you don't have to be a Jesuit to be an effective casuist.

    The issue at stake, simply put, is PEAK OIL, and that is why the USA is backing the Saudis in the proxy war versus Iran and Putin's Russia. What is at stake is the survival of the Saudi Kingdom and the Iranian Republic, both of which are very unstable. Hilariously, the Saudis are autocrats like the Russians, while the Iranians are all but a modern democracy if it weren't for those pesky mullahs, so the USA is all but on the wrong side. Most of Russia's foreign policy of late has been dictated by the concerns about Peak Oil, hence the need to regain their Crimean fleet, cut a deal with Erdogan's Turkey over access through the Bosphorus, and their support for Syria, and alliance with Iran. On the other hand the USA and their regional allies managed to secure all Syria's oil fields.

    The point is, as fossil fuel reserves dwindle nations will go to war over what remains, and they will do so indirectly by putting their stooges in power in nations with oil reserves. The disturbing prospect is that Russia may have put Trump in power to create a paralysis of leadership in the USA and to provide the Russians with a freer hand to operate as they please. Peak Oil is what is driving the new cold war, and that is something that should worry everyone because the implications are of rapidly declining standards of living unless we are able to find alternatives. Thankfully there are some lights on the horizon. I hope to live to see the day when we primarily use oil for plastics instead of fuel.

    Now back to the original question "Are Christian Fundamentalists stoking war in the Middle East?". The answer is "no", because the Middle East hasn't been at peace for a very long time. What the Christian Fundamentalists are doing is providing an arm of propaganda to motivate Americans to fight. If you tell men that they are fighting a grubby war for resources and to keep other men rich, they will sneer, but if you can couch their bloodlust in the towering rhetoric of the faux-old-timey language of the Bible and make it seem like prophecy, then you have a "motivated workforce". This trick has been around for a very long time.
     
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  21. INT21

    INT21 Justified & Ancient

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    ..
    INT21 said:

    ..59 percent [of Americans] believe Revelation will come true. Without one scrap of scriptural evidence, almost one-quarter of Americans believe Revelation predicted 9/11..


    Actually INT21 quoted (cut and paste) a section of a Tim Apello's article.

    I tried to post the whole thing but it was too long.

    INT21
     
  22. INT21

    INT21 Justified & Ancient

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    Alchopwn,

    ..I hope to live to see the day when we primarily use oil for plastics instead of fuel...

    It won't happen. Too many people get rich by playing things like the stock market, or make their money from things that need lots of oil to operate.

    The thing is, we could reduce oil consumption dramatically overnight.

    But it will tread on too many interests.

    We are screwed, my friend, screwed.

    INT21.
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2018 at 8:15 PM
  23. Waymarker

    Waymarker Devoted Cultist

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    I'd never heard the term "Peak Oil" til now; I googled it but I'm still not sure exactly what it means. Does it mean a point in time at which supply can't keep up with demand?
    For example one hit said the following but it's all eco-gobbledegook to me..:)-

    "Peak oil is the point in time when the maximum rate of crude oil extraction is reached, after which the rate of extraction is expected to begin to decline… forever. Some people say peak demand is different from peak supply. No, it is not. It is not because both supply and demand are a function of price. The higher the price the more oil producers are willing to deliver and the less consumers are willing to buy. So both peak demand and peak supply depend on the price. And of course the state of the economy comes into the picture. Both peak supply and demand in a booming economy would be totally different from peak supply and demand in a deep recession."
    http://peakoilbarrel.com/what-is-peak-oil/
     
  24. INT21

    INT21 Justified & Ancient

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    .."Peak oil is the point in time when the maximum rate of crude oil extraction is reached, after which the rate of extraction is expected to begin to decline...

    That is my understanding. It also appears to mean that it is getting harder to extract crude.

    everyone seems to ignore the fact that oil is a finite commodity. When it's gone, it's gone.

    This could be bad news for those who think 'Ah, what the hell, it'll last my lifetime'. Then find out that reincarnation is also a fact.

    INT21
     
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  25. Jim

    Jim Ephemeral Spectre

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    Vast reserves of coal exist. Coal can be extracted "via a more complicated process" into oil. There are other fuel alternatives as well.

    I agree much of the present crude oil concern is a political control issue . The last time the Mideast (which has the greatest oil reserves) had a semblance of stability was during the pre-WW1 Ottoman era. They were not benevolent being a Sultanate, however much less conflict - war, etc. existed.
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2018 at 2:04 AM
  26. AlchoPwn

    AlchoPwn Ephemeral Spectre

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    LOL eco-gobbledegook? This is the term the oil industry uses to describe their predicament. The point is, crude oil is a finite resource, a point everyone agrees upon. As a civilization we recently met a point where the known reserves of oil in the world were half consumed. Given that our civilization is heavily dependent on oil, this should be deeply concerning to anyone who is able to consider what that will mean X years down the track.

    Peak oil is the theorized point in time when the maximum rate of extraction of petroleum is reached, after which it is expected to enter terminal decline.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peak_oil
     
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  27. AlchoPwn

    AlchoPwn Ephemeral Spectre

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    While I admire your pessimism, I have some bad news for you. It looks as if nuclear fusion is finally coming of age after decades of failed promises https://theconversation.com/why-nuclear-fusion-is-gaining-steam-again-93775

    And failing that, we can fall back on geothermal, which has the added benefit of slurping energy from supervolcanones, which further protects us https://www.renewableenergyworld.com/geothermal-energy/tech.html

    Then there is the reprocessing of nuclear waste into diamond batteries
    https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesc...aking-good-use-of-nuclear-waste/#ba8de7fa0449

    All this leads me to suspect that the cars of the future will be electrical and civilization will not necessarily die out, but the fossil fuel financial empires will inevitably have to transform or end. Of course this has all happened before. Once upon a time we nearly hunted whales to extinction to obtain their blubber for heating oil, but that industry contracted and all but died. If we want to drive ourselves to extinction, we really must try a lot harder.
     
  28. Waymarker

    Waymarker Devoted Cultist

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    Yes I did a net search last year to try to pin down a definite answer to the question "When will oil finally run out?", and the general consensus of oil industry professionals seems to be "Sometime this century".
    However, some other camps say "There'll always be artificially-created alternatives to oil", and others say "New extraction methods will always find untapped sources".

    As for the question "When will demand for oil begin outstripping supply", I researched that too, and as usual the answers were mixed, for example some experts say it already began in 2010 and that it's downhill from now on !
    So as a matter of interest, suppose it WILL run out sometime this century, how do FT members predict things will go as the wells begin to run dry?
    My two cents prediction is that governments will ban non-electric cars so that there'll be enough petrol/gasoline to make their planes, ships and tanks go, otherwise our military will have to resort to fighting with sticks and stones, right General?

    "Ugh..!"
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2018 at 10:34 AM
  29. INT21

    INT21 Justified & Ancient

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    AlchoPwn..

    ..Such a battery produces very low power, but has no moving parts, no emissions of any type including radiation, needs no maintenance, does not need to be recharged and will operate for thousands of years..

    You will also have noticed this bit at the end of the Forbes article..

    ..
    But the power output of the diamond battery is continuous and doesn’t stop. The radioactive diamond battery would still be putting out 50% power after 5,730 years, which is one half-life of carbon-14 or about as long as human civilization has existed. During this time, the diamond battery would have produced over 20 million Joules. And would produce another 10 million during the next 5,730 years.

    So these batteries would be useful in situations where you could not, or would rather not, replace the battery, such as in pacemakers or in spacecraft and satellites...


    INT21
     
  30. Jim

    Jim Ephemeral Spectre

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    However Joules can be deceiving. 20 Megajoules are = 5.5 KW/hr. An average car sized lead acid battery can provide 1.2 KW/hr.
     

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