A15 Lincolnshire Road Ghost - Ruskington/Sleaford

Discussion in 'Ghosts: General' started by CuriousIdent, Nov 23, 2009.

  1. Cochise

    Cochise Justified & Ancient

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    I wouldn't worry, if it was my relative. If the gardener doesn't seen upset I would assume he - his soul or whatever - is not there and what was being seen was some sort of earth memory of someone who'd done the same thing every day for many years. Which begs the question of why doesn't everyone who does something repetitively leave such an imprint - well, I don't know.

    There is no data to speculate on so I don't often contribute to ghost discussions. But I am convinced that people do see ghosts, and they are not individual hallucinations. But whether there really is something objective to see or whether they are some sort of group mind thing - as, I say, no data.
     
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  2. David Plankton

    David Plankton Justified & Ancient

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    I am quite certain that people see ghosts as well. I haven't.

    Last year I watched a TV show where one of the characters described time as being 'like a flat disc'. That's S1 of True Detective in case you're wondering. Where everything that has ever happened, and everything that will ever happen, exists now and always has done and always will.
    I know this sounds a little 'pre-ordained', but I liked the idea. It stuck in my head and I thought about it a lot.

    What if the present moment we are experiencing now is like the needle on the record of that flat disc of time? Everything else that ever happened (or will) is there, just somewhere else. Maddeningly close, yet unattainable, slightly out of reach.

    If something goes wrong with an LP, be it dust or scratches, then the needle of the present moves to somewhere it shouldn't be, and our perception of things goes awry.

    I have for a long time been an advocate of the Stone Tape theory but I think this is an interesting diversion.

    And like Cochise says, there is no data. :p
     
  3. Coal

    Coal Gentleman, scholar, acrobat.

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    I'm quite certain people think they see ghosts which is not exactly the same thing.

    This was the basic premise of time as explained in 'The Mission' by Patrick Tilley.

    http://www.patricktilley.co.uk/mission/index.php
     
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  4. CuriousIdent

    CuriousIdent Not yet SO old Great Old One

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    Hmm. This thread has gone off at a bit of tangent, hasn't it? To more general Road Ghosts. There is another thread for that, I'm sure.


    Hi AxfellRogue. I'm not on here quite so often these days, so I missed your post.

    I think that your account could be the first A15 account we've had from the past 10 years.

    Had you heard of this 'ghost' before your experience?
     
  5. Hermes

    Hermes Junior Acolyte

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    Hi DrPaulLee, and all: Yes indeed, it is finally complete and available. Thanks. Link on my website above, or directly here: http://www.lulu.com/shop/sean-tudor...r-road-ghosts/paperback/product-23088488.html (should appear on Amazon and other outlets in 6-8 weeks). Some 50 named witness encounters (dating to 1934), illustrated and fully referenced.
     
  6. Yithian

    Yithian Keeping The British End Up Staff Member

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    Welcome back, Hermes. I've just had a concerted attempt to gather up all the posts associated with your original incarnation, but I'm afraid that they've become anonymised during one of the earlier board change overs and I can't do it

    Still, it's good to see you return with a completed book in tow. Back in the mists of time I read everything on your website as I used to live not far from Bluebell Hill.
     
  7. Hermes

    Hermes Junior Acolyte

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    Thanks Yithian. Good to see you and many other familiar originals still on the Forum! (Thanks for the attempt at retrieval of the old posts, but I think we all lost background at the time of the re-set that leaves many of us with updated user names).
    I took some time out for family, etc - and latterly to finally get the updated book out there. Phew! Can now think about other projects and, of course, networking with like minds.
    I was a bit disappointed to see no Uncon on the horizon - I do think FT and readership would do well to reclaim the convention centre ground - although inevitably it is a lot to organize.
     
  8. escargot

    escargot Beloved of Ra

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    Welcome back! We've missed you!
     
  9. CuriousIdent

    CuriousIdent Not yet SO old Great Old One

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    I don't recall. Maybe the latter, but the soundtrack to Superbad (along with the film) wouldn't have been release for over another decade from when Kevin experienced this.



    Hi Hermes,

    Is this particular case listed in that book?
     
  10. Hermes

    Hermes Junior Acolyte

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    [QUOTE/Hi Hermes,

    Is this particular case listed in that book?[/QUOTE]

    Yes indeed; it occupies three pages in one of the late chapters, together with similar incidents from elsewhere - 'though Ruskington, like some other cases, could stand a more detailed investigation and accounting. I corresponded with one of the witnesses around the time, and visited the site later to aid my understanding of the road section and lay of the land.[/QUOTE]
     
  11. CuriousIdent

    CuriousIdent Not yet SO old Great Old One

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    Will have to look into that. :)

    Cheers for the prompt response.
     
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  12. catseye

    catseye Generally strange

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    A general observation about road ghosts:

    I've read about road ghosts who have looked at driver or passenger and given an 'evil smile'.. can't remember where I read these accounts now, unfortunately. I have a theory about these, based on my own lucid dreams and a friend who has night terrors. In several lucid dreams, when I have approached characters and told them that I knew I was dreaming, they gave me an 'evil smile' in acknowledgement. In the case of my night terrors friend, she frequently sees an old lady, who gives her a particular smile that she describes as 'sinister'.

    Can, perhaps, some of these road ghosts be attributed to drivers (or passengers) falling asleep at the wheel but continuing to drive in a half-lucid state, and the 'evil smile' is some kind of warning from the subconscious?
     
  13. CuriousIdent

    CuriousIdent Not yet SO old Great Old One

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    It's not entirely implausible. It could explain things directly appearing in your line of sight. Across your windscreen, suddenly, as a gnarled face with a set expression. Not entirely implausible.

    I think it would be less plausible with some of the accounts in this case, though. Where many of the accounts have described something appearing from, or being see at, a distance.

    Like people who have seen this figure at the side of the road, or standing out in a field as a group of them walked through it. And gesturing. Like a halt gesture.

    I think that is what interests me the most about the A15 road ghost, that such a large number of people appear to have seen it without having been previously aware of the urban legend of it all. And that many of those accounts are similar. either in appearance or gesture.
     
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  14. EnolaGaia

    EnolaGaia I knew the job was dangerous when I took it ...

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    As far as the general experience of observation (leaving out the sinister smile bit ... ) the answer is a definite 'yes'.

    There are two named driving phenomena that can be blamed for visual hallucinations:

    - Road / highway hypnosis - Going into a sort of zombie state and driving long distances 'on auto-pilot' with little or no conscious awareness of the experience, even to the extent of not remembering having driven the last several miles.

    - Sleep-deprived driving - All the potential side effects of sleep deprivation (including perceptual distortions and hallucinations) while managing to stay nominally awake and on the road.

    Both have been subjects of concern and research for several decades. It's never been clear to me that (a) they are necessarily two entirely separate phenomena (as they've been treated historically .. ) and (b) they can't be more reasonably construed as two symptoms of some more general phenomenon.

    I've experienced both during long-distance nighttime driving. With me the visual weirdness rarely involves a figure at the side of the road. My classic symptom is a horde of gnomes jogging / dancing around the front end of the vehicle, occasionally hopping up to wave and / or look at me as their heads cleared the fender line. The ones sitting on the front bumper and popping their heads above the hood are the worst. In one case I also heard their continuous cartoon-ish high-pitched chattering.

    In all such instances I stopped and turned the driving over to a passenger / co-driver.

    All these experiences occurred three or more decades ago, and all involved unexpected long-distance hauls for which I hadn't been prepared (and was therefore running on personal 'battery power' alone ... ).

    I have perceived figures standing alongside the road and vehicles at a distance that mysteriously disappear without there being a turn-off they might have taken. Some of these have been striking enough to make me stop and circle back to double-check. However, I've never parsed any of these observations as 'ghosts'.
     
  15. Krepostnoi

    Krepostnoi Hoarse Bronzeman

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    Your whole post is fascinating, thank you. I'd like to pick up on the aspect you explicitly did not touch on, the sinister smiles. There are quite a few threads on here about people witnessing a succession of sinister faces as they fall asleep - I used to be affected by this myself, until I read one such thread which offered the advice to "ask" the faces what they want. I cannot overstate the effectiveness of this approach in my case. In my experience, and as far as I could glean from other similarly afflicted posters, it was nothing other than a sinister smile that was the salient feature of the faces we "saw". I find the coincidence striking, and I wonder if a similar mechanism is at work within tired drivers.

    By way of example, there is a tangential discussion of the phenomenon here (post #39 and several subsequently) although on re-reading that I see that I tended to talk more in terms of screams and grimaces than sinister smiles. But certainly my recollection of the faces I "saw" is that "sinister smile" would be a reasonable description of many of them.
     
  16. Krepostnoi

    Krepostnoi Hoarse Bronzeman

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    Do you have plans to release an ebook version? I'm extremely peripatetic, and have little ability to carry physical books around with me. Were that not the case, I'd have bought it already.
     
  17. Hermes

    Hermes Junior Acolyte

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    I think that's the next logical step - after again clearing the permissions necessary to quote from certain texts for an e-version. I'll post an update when it's available.
     
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  18. Hermes

    Hermes Junior Acolyte

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    I cover this idea briefly in my book. I believe this is part of the mechanism as well as the experience of some road ghosts. The question then relates to why that particular 'alert' system or imagery and not some other equally effective jolt to consciousness. And so, we get into Jung's concepts of the archetypes...
     
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  19. CuriousIdent

    CuriousIdent Not yet SO old Great Old One

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    I've not been off googling on the subject of the A15 Road Ghost in several years. But doing so today I discovered this:

    http://www.express.co.uk/comment/co.../353168/An-encounter-with-a-ghost-of-the-road

    An Express article by Richard Madely, recounting (in 2012) much of what he recalls of the experience. It has the embellishing of a man telling a ghost story for effect in places. It was both written to coincide with Halloween approaching and it is also somewhat unclear as to whose story he is initially recounting - it differs from Kevin Whelan's story certainly.

    For example:

    Like this was bloody Amityville or something...

    I am a little skeptical of the way in which Madely dealt with this case (as I've probably eluded to somewhat before). Because I feel that the investigation ultimately led things off at massive tangent - Templars, Witches, haunted sites unconnected to the site of the incident...

    But still, there is some interest to be had here. For example:

    I don't recall either of those examples being listed in the live broadcast. Maybe they were other example callers, but they don't seem to quite match up with anything broadcast at the time.

    He also claims that the week of investigation revealed the following facts:

    I have no way of knowing whether that is true or not. Again, I don't believe that detail was broadcast.

    And which field? The figure has been reported at several point around the turn-off. And in fields near RAF Cranwell. So which field are we talking about?

    I don't doubt the possibility of a plague pit existing (hardly uncommon) but I'd need to know where, and how close it actually is to the A15.

    Three points there.

    RAF plane coming down in WW2? Sure. There would probably be a record of that. Probably provable. I don't believe this was mentioned in the broadcast.

    A hermit? No mention of that either, to my recollection. But who was he? If this happened, then when did it? Were there records?

    And then we have the motorcyclist! Well, Kevin Whelan mentioned on This Morning that he had heard of a motorbike accident here. But if I recall rightly this was not a fatality. The driver lost their legs, but not a confirmed fatality. We also don't have a date for that.


    Groan... :)

    The Templar connection was explored on the show. There's also a link up thread which draws more speculative Templar links with the line of the road. But I can't recall if this 'site of a church' ever was discussed in the broadcast, or proven to be a real thing.

    And where was this? Because knowing that might help us pin down this plague pit also. I would want to know where they are actually marking as metaphorical ground zero for this, in comparison to the actual Turning on the road.

    I take it all with a very liberal pinch of salt, because This Morning's investigation did go off at such strange tangents, looking for Witches and hangings in the locale, rather than further investigating the actual site and the similarities between individual people's testimonies.

    They were more interested in linking some horrific event, even if that might have happened several miles away in a totally different place, than what people were actually telling them. And that was annoying.
     
  20. CuriousIdent

    CuriousIdent Not yet SO old Great Old One

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    The Plague Pit notion has been bugging me. I don't recall this having been mentioned at the time of the original broadcast.

    Is this a local urban legend, a verifiable historical fact, or (as was the case with so much of the This Morning 'investigation') trying to tie something from miles away to the site for the sake of trying to tenuously explain it?

    Madeley's choice of words would suggest that this was in some way known and historical fact. A designated site which corpses from Lincoln were brought to.

    If that was honestly the case then surely there would be clear documented evidence of it. A keyword searchs for Lincolnshire plague pit sites doesn't yield anything for the Ruskington, Sleaford, Cranwel or the A15.

    The nearest you'll find is a 2016 (so after Madeley's article let alone the broadcast) Lincolnshire dig revealing a plague pit at Thornton Abbey near Immingham. Over an hour's drive from this stretch of the A15, according to google.

    While you can't 100% write off the possibility of any part of rural Lincolnshire having used a field to dump the black death dead, I see nothing immediately screaming that there's evidence of this.
     
  21. CuriousIdent

    CuriousIdent Not yet SO old Great Old One

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  22. RaM

    RaM Abominable Snowman

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  23. CuriousIdent

    CuriousIdent Not yet SO old Great Old One

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  24. RaM

    RaM Abominable Snowman

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    About 5 or 6 miles nr Cranwell
     
  25. CuriousIdent

    CuriousIdent Not yet SO old Great Old One

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    Interesting. Because during that This Morning 'live broadcast from the nearest viable local pub' I'm sure that somebody had mentioned a legend of seeing an armoured knight on horse in the area. :)
     
  26. RaM

    RaM Abominable Snowman

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    I to seem to remember a tale of a knight on horseback galloping across the fields seen from cars.
     
  27. CuriousIdent

    CuriousIdent Not yet SO old Great Old One

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    So, I decided to see if I could find any evidence to support the claim of 20th Century fatalities around the A15 Sleaford road turning, which Mr Madeley made claim of in his Express article.

    First off:



    I've started here, because frankly if there was then there would likely have been a record. Which is how I cam by the Bomber County site, which just so happens to list the aviation incident reports for all of Lincolnshire between 1939 and 1945!

    http://www.bcar.org.uk/index

    So I've combed through these, with the following caveats:

    I was only looking for references to Sleaford, Ruskington and Cranwell. The Sleaford turning on the A15 leads west to RAF Cranwell, and that base was very busy during WW2. I've also ignored any incidents which clearly stated no casualties or happened several miles from the area of the sighting.

    Truth be told a fair number of planes came down in the area, but many 7-10 miles away. Just a little too far to be truly plausible.

    1939: http://www.bcar.org.uk/1939-incident-logs


    30th Sept – Hind – Serial: K5373 – Unit: Abingdon SF

    Location: Nr Cranwell

    Hit high ground 2 miles north of Cranwell whilst low flying. 2 killed.

    It's unclear whether that's *came to ground* 2 miles north or *began experiencing difficulty* 2 miles north. Either would bew north of the turning, but as the crow flies that probably would intersect with the A15 itself.


    7th Nov – Hart – Serial: K5884 – Unit: RAFC

    Location: Cranwell

    Crashed on approach to south airfield at night, hit a cottage.

    If this was approaching the airfield from the south it's probably too far West. Also no evidence of casualties. But may have hit a cottage in Cranwell village.


    13th Dec – Audax – Serial: K7423 – Unit: RAFC SFTS

    Location: Cranwell

    Lost height after takeoff for night sortie, 1 killed.


    This is probably much closer to the RAF base than the A15. Not implausible, but likely too far West of the road.


    1940: http://www.bcar.org.uk/1940-incident-logs

    4th Oct – Wallace II & Oxford – Serials K6030 & R5950 – Units: 1SS & 2SFTS

    Location: Nr Sleaford

    K6030 & R5950 collided midair, crashing near Sleaford.

    Now initially that sounds more plausible. As it's closer to Sleaford, maybe even on the east side of the A15 .

    But there is no clear statement of injury here. Let alone fatality. So, probably less likely.


    1941: http://www.bcar.org.uk/1941-incident-logs


    15th October – Oxford – Serials: P1080 & X6937 – Units: RAFC

    Location: Nr Cranwell

    Planes collided 0.5 miles west of the airfield


    So probably the furthest West yet. And again no casualties.


    1942: http://www.bcar.org.uk/1942-incident-logs

    6th July – Havoc I – Serial AX914 – Unit: 51 OTU

    Location: Cranwell Village

    Crashed in the village, not recorded in the OTU losses book.

    Now again, no confirmation of casualties. But what interests me here is that Sleaford turning leads directly into Cranwell village. So if there had been (and record keeping has been sketchy here - not recording the loss of the plane) That's actually relatively close to the site. Arguably yes, it's the wrong side of the road. But we shouldn't entirely write it off.


    1945:
    http://www.bcar.org.uk/1945-incident-logs

    2nd March – 2 Lancaster IIIs – Serials ND572 & ME473 – Units N0.57 sqn & No.207 sqn

    Location: Ruskington Fen

    Two planes collided during an affiliation exercise.

    Again, there is no specific suggestion of a loss of life here. But at least it is on the east (Ruskington) side of the road. Almost all other incidents happen (funnily enough) closer to RAF Cranwell.

    4th March – Halifax III – Serial NA680 – Unit: No.347 Sqn


    Location: Nr Cranwell

    Plane lost while returning from mission to Kamen. Shot down during homebound leg by an intruder, and crashed near RAF Cranwell.

    5 of the crew baled out, but 2 were KIA. The flight engineer was wounded and could not bale out with them. Cne P. Laucou stayed with the plane to attempt a forced-landing. It was unsuccessful. He and the flight engineer lost their lives.

    This too is probably too far west of the road. But I include it as it is arguably the most traumatic incident on offer here. 2 dead, 5 survivors, a lot of people involved.


    So we're not short of incidents i the area at this time. But the one thing which is clear is that not one single incident can be conclusively pinned down fields in the direct vicinity of the stretch between the Ruskington turning (east) and Sleaford turning (west) on the A15.

    Furthermore, there is nothing in the testimonies of those who claim to have seen a figure on this stretch of road which would tie them to air disaster. We've had descriptions of waistcoats, robes, hoods, but nothing which would seem in any tangible way like aviation uniform.

    I just don't think there is a truly viable connection here between a plane crash somewhere nearby and this figure seen by people over a number of decades.

    I honestly suspect that the plane crash Madeley is talking of happened somewhere at distance and a researcher on the show made a huge jump in logic to tie the two together.


    EDIT: Looking more closely at the map of the area I have to admit I missed something...

    11th December 1941 – Aircraft type: Spitfire & Oxford – Serials: AD291 & T1052 – Unit: 412 sqn & RAFC

    Location: Nr Roxholm Hall

    Two planes in a mid air collision. Both pilots died. One (presumably) from the crash the other because he was at too low an altitude for his parachute to open fully in time.

    Roxholm Hall today is a care home. It's located less than a mile east of the Turning by which Kevin Whelan had his experience.

    Now I don't know how close to road it actually was. I don't know how far the Hall's grounds reached in WW2 or where it actually crashed. But less than a mile is credible enough a distance.

    An aviation... ghost of some kind still seems unlikely from other people's testimony. A pilot would likely be dressed as a pilot. But it would appear that the notion of an RAF plane coming down in the vicinity is not implausible.
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2017 at 9:11 AM
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  28. Cochise

    Cochise Justified & Ancient

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    It just occurred to me, reading your excellent research, there must be few places in England that haven't had someone - usually many people - die within a mile distance.

    Since we don't know what would make a ghost in the first place - obviously not everyone becomes a ghost or we'd know all about them - it's hard to know what to look for unless there is a visual clue such as a uniform.

    That's if there are ghosts at all, of course.
     
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  29. CuriousIdent

    CuriousIdent Not yet SO old Great Old One

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    Absolutely.

    We're living on a island with a finite amount of space which has had people living on it for thousands of years.

    Thousands of people die every year, and while many will tend to die in hospitals or their own homes, if every single one of them became a ghost we'd damn well be swamped by localised hauntings all across the Country by now... :)

    I have nothing even approaching a finite explanation of what seems to have been happening on this stretch of the A15.

    A ghost? Possibly.

    A mass shared hallucination? Probably a lot less likely.

    Some kind of weird blip in time and space, replaying a glimpse from some part of the past? Who knows! :)

    What interests me is quite how many people seem to have experienced something personally along this stretch of road, without having known about other sightings *before* they did.

    That's why the This Morning phone-in in the 90s grabbed several of our attentions here. Because even given the spectacle of getting yourself on TV there were enough independent people claiming to have experienced something - and something quite strikingly similar between multiple accounts - for there not to be *something* in it.

    If I were trying to rationalise this *as* a ghost mind you I probably would be looking at striking or dramatic deaths as more likely to be responsible for some poor sod still drifting in and around the realm of the living, by night.

    A person struck down by a horse and cart as came out to warn travelers of the plague pit nearby.

    An airman who crashed nearby trying to flag down transport, not realising he was already dead.

    I think it's natural to try and build such narratives within your head. You can't really help it. But it's the experiences of real people whose testimony comes from the living past which are of the most interest to me.

    If that really was Kevin Whelan who dropped by a few years and a couple of pages back I regret that it was during a period where I was away from these boards. Because I absolutely believe that that guy experienced something real, and which he could not explain. And in googling his name he found people doubting his story in very scathing tones in places.

    If that had been me I'd have pretty (justifiably) angry. I wish he had come back. I'd have loved to have a respectful and rational conversation with him about what he experienced.
     
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2017
  30. staticgirl

    staticgirl Abominable Snowman

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    Just a post to say I really appreciate all the efforts that have been made to research these experiences. Thank you.
     
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