A query if this is an urban legend ?

Discussion in 'Notes and Queries' started by Swifty, Feb 16, 2017.

  1. Swifty

    Swifty Justified and Ancient

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    I'm hoping to find the source of this grim creepy account or possibly urban legend ..

    From memory, it was set in either the 60's or 70's ..... workmen lifted up a large remote outdoors cover (I'm unsure which country this was supposed to have happened in) to discover a dead woman standing on a very narrow ledge, hands tied and with a noose around her neck. Below her there was a large drop. Whoever left her there clearly didn't want to (or couldn't) return to free her and that's how she was found, still standing, dead and presumably leaning against a wall or corner ..

    Does this ring any bells with anyone please ?, my big Sister told it to me as a kid but she used to enjoy frightening me with ghost stories so I wouldn't be surprised to learn that's it's a scene from a film she'd seen ...
     
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  2. Bigphoot2

    Bigphoot2 Justified and Ancient

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  3. escargot1

    escargot1 Justified and Ancient

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    LOCATION:
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    Yes, definitely poor Lesley Whittle. It happened near here.
    We visited the site on our bikes in the summer. It's a magnificent country park.

    She didn't die accidentally or through neglect though, she was deliberately pushed off the ledge and hanged.
     
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  4. Swifty

    Swifty Justified and Ancient

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    Thanks you two, I can't bring myself to click 'like' for obvious reasons ... poor woman and I was hoping it was just an urban myth .. I grew up in the midlands at that time myself, must have been how my Sis learned about it ..
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2017
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  5. Bigphoot2

    Bigphoot2 Justified and Ancient

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    I remember the case well and being struck by the sheer callousness of it. Horrible way to die.
     
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  6. Swifty

    Swifty Justified and Ancient

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  7. Bigphoot2

    Bigphoot2 Justified and Ancient

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    I'm not religious but sometimes I wish there was a Hell and people like Neilson are burning in it.
     
  8. escargot1

    escargot1 Justified and Ancient

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    At his trial, it was stated that he went back to the drain and shoved Lesley off to kill her. I've also read that in a couple of books. But who knows? They're both dead now.

    I'm inclined to believe it. She was a witness and he wasn't taking any chances, and he was ruthless. He might even have thought he was putting her out of her misery.
    Also, she was wearing home-made wire collar made from a coat hanger which would've been difficult if not impossible to remove safely. I don't feel that he ever intended to take it off her.
     
  9. smokehead

    smokehead Great Old One

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    Thanks to Swifty for posting the Mail link.
    A bloke from the firm I worked for a couple of years later was questioned as part of the Black Panther investigation
    I've always been slightly puzzled as he didn't look anything like Donald Nielsen.
    Looking through the Mail gallery he did closely resemble Ronald Whittle however.
    He was working at our southern branch when I joined the firm. He later came back as manager.
    Driving me and some other lads back after a night out he was pulled over by the police and was extremely unhelpful, even rude, the officer let it go, but it showed the previous experience had embittered him towards the police.
     
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  10. Swifty

    Swifty Justified and Ancient

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    At least the bastard died in 2011 ..
     
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  11. smokehead

    smokehead Great Old One

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    My attitude towards the floggers and hangers has always been it's fine as long as someone else is doing the dirty work. It's others who have to be brutalized by the experience, they who have it on their conscience for the rest of their lives.
    So my response has always been a simple one, if you want someone executed, go and do it yourself.
    In this case however I think I could have pushed the button, pulled the lever, whatever, and gone and had a good nights sleep. What that poor girl went through is unimaginable.
     
  12. Cochise

    Cochise Justified and Ancient

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    One of the arguments against is that it gives the doer time to dwell on his wrongdoing. I doubt this guy spent much time doing that.

    I'm very much against the death penalty as a general punishment, but I think it was a pity it was taken off the books altogether. There are cases like this where a) there is no doubt whatsoever as to the guilt of the culprit, and b) there are circumstances of particular brutality or suffering, where it seems to be merited. But I don't know if I would be able to pull the lever, so I'll shut up.
     
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  13. Swifty

    Swifty Justified and Ancient

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    Fred west hung himself because he knew what laid in wait for him (and possibly because the police covertly allowed him to be able to so) .. Ian Huntley, another coward, tried various ways of ending his purgatory .. some people argue that it's cruel to keep lifers alive against their will .. tell that to Leslie .. I doubt her last thoughts would have been about him .. that's why, as much as I hate it, we are all animals .. I'm a Christian by faith but I'm also glad that Nielsen is finally dead, I wouldn't have seen him abused or murdered because of it in prison .. the world is one less failure lighter.
     
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  14. smokehead

    smokehead Great Old One

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    I support rehabilitation, perhaps naively requiring an ideal, i.e. the young idiot dragged along by a mate on a robbery, but I fully accept the principle that people should be given a second chance.
    Even some heinous offenders require some understanding, reading about their family backgrounds is to realise that they never stood a chance in hell. Some, not all.
    The likes of Nielsen I believe relive their actions in a kind of masturbatory way, remorse and guilt being perfect strangers to that kind of mind getting off on the pain and terror they have caused.
    They have plenty of time to do it.
    I have no qualms about denying them that.
     
  15. Coal

    Coal Gone full 'folk festival'

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    That's true to a point. Even in heinous conditions the majority do not become violent criminals, so even though society ought to pay attention to the socio-economic conditions that appear to generate great number of criminals and redress them, 'letting offenders off' because of a poor upbringing insults those who remain decent in the same circumstances and doesn't do any good anyway I'd suggest.

    I would however, be in favour of tougher sentences for those who had a good upbringing and still chose to be criminals. At first glance it can look like we're tougher on those who had little life opportunity, than on those who had good life opportunity and I'd suggest the reverse might be more appropriate.
     
  16. smokehead

    smokehead Great Old One

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    I am generally in agreement with you. I was thinking of Mary Bell and perhaps it would have been better to cite her as an example in the post.
    If there is a genetic component the lottery of life ensures someone with a propensity towards violence will be brought up in the worst possible circumstances. Others will be luckier.
    Of course there are also those examples where even those with what we might consider privileged lives commit atrocious crimes.
    I'm not sure where I stand on nature v nurture, personal responsibility certainly but I also believe we are less the product of self determinism than we think.
     
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  17. GNC

    GNC King-Sized Canary

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    The only mildly amusing thing that happened in connection with Donald Nielsen was that he got into a fight with the equally unlovely Dennis Nilsen when Dennis told him, "If you're the Black Panther, then I'm the Pink Panther." Apart from that, two wastes of oxygen.
     
  18. Coal

    Coal Gone full 'folk festival'

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    That's right I think and it's true of us all. Even if you have clawed your way out of the bear-pit to respectability, there are many with the same or better attributes who did not. Luck plays a part, both in our individual achievements and corporate ones. It's why idiots occasionally succeed and why bad businesses occasionally (literally) against all odds do well. Someone or something is always at the outer reaches of the bell-curve.

    I've never understood why 'nature vs nurture' is a debate, when all of us are clearly a product of both.
     
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  19. smokehead

    smokehead Great Old One

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    That reminds me of Linda Smith and her brilliant one liner, about Neil and Christine Hamilton iirc.
    "Some people say they should be denied the oxygen of publicity, whereas I would like to deny them the oxygen of oxygen".
     
  20. OneWingedBird

    OneWingedBird Justified and Ancient

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    Going back to the early 90s, a guy I worked with was interviewed after someone called him in over a photofit of a possible serial killer that I think had been put out on crimewatch, never managed to verify the case it was in relation to though seems likely it was one that wasn't that heavily reported, the case of a woman's murder in Leeds where there were women's shoes found at the scene that didn't belong to the victim or her family.

    He reckoned the officers that interviewed him told him they were pig sick of the job as they had about 300 guys to interview, all of which looked very similar.

    So maybe it wasn't so much that your chap was a suspect per se if the police were playing the numbers game on leads for the case.
     
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